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Which team did you play in the last game?

Glorious Arstotzka
- 17 (16%)
Glorious Moskurg
- 13 (12.3%)
Ingloriously Didn't Play
- 76 (71.7%)

Total Members Voted: 106


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Author Topic: Intercontinental Arms Race: Finale  (Read 591202 times)

ConscriptFive

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Winter 1944 (Design Phase)
« Reply #6495 on: July 02, 2018, 02:43:22 pm »


Quote from: Designs
UFAF-A-44 ‘Manta’(1): Lightforger
UFN-BB-43 'Victorious' (4): Madman, Kashyyk, Zanzetkuken, helmacon
UFN-ASM-44 'Saltseeker' (6): Jilladilla, Taricus, eS, NAV, Powder Miner, Conscript Five

UFN-SSCM-44 Whatever: (2) Kot, Wizgrot

NAV

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Winter 1944 (Design Phase)
« Reply #6496 on: July 02, 2018, 02:48:09 pm »

Quote from: Designs
UFAF-A-44 ‘Manta’(1): Lightforger
UFN-BB-43 'Victorious' (4): Madman, Kashyyk, Zanzetkuken, helmacon
UFN-ASM-44 'Saltseeker' (5): Jilladilla, Taricus, eS, Powder Miner, Conscript Five
UFN-ASM-44 'Saltseeker' (With ARAC and shore launch capability): NAV

UFN-SSCM-44 Whatever: (2) Kot, Wizgrot
« Last Edit: July 02, 2018, 02:51:13 pm by NAV »
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Highmax…dead, flesh torn from him, though his skill with the sword was unmatched…military…Nearly destroyed .. Rhunorah... dead... Mastahcheese returns...dead. Gaul...alive, still locked in combat. NAV...Alive, drinking booze....
The face on the toaster does not look like one of mercy.

Kot

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Winter 1944 (Design Phase)
« Reply #6497 on: July 02, 2018, 02:53:07 pm »

Quote from: Design IV
UFN-SSCM-44 "Noose"

As a prerrequisite for the development of the Noose, we will try to decomplex the Frightening radar package.

"Noose" is essentially stripped down UFAF-F-41 Lightning Streak with a warhead strapped to it and advanced guidance instead of it's cockpit. The engine is replaced (it doesn't have to fit perfectly, the back can stick out) for one of VVF engines running on pure kerosene (since we don't have to worry about low speed flameouts anyway) but still having afterburners. It's wings are clipped as much as possible (considering the plane doesn't need big wings, since it's not going to move at slow speeds) and internals are mostly gutted, with smaller fuel tank that lasts only for a hundred or so kilometers. It's planned role is to destroy enemy ships and be used for other long-range bombardment missions.

"Noose" is launched from a rail which is either mounted in pairs on bigger ships, old ARAC trains or static land mounts, or in single mounts on trailers, Artemis trucks and smaller ships. The ship-borne version designed to be fired from an angle off the deck of a ship before leveling out in flight. A version capable to be hooked in pairs under the Ice Giant bomber wings can also be devised. Two solid-propellant rockets (that may just be artillery rockets without warheads) boosters launches the missile before dropping off and letting the jet take over, giving the Whatever a near-instantaneous launch speed. The sensor suite uses our Deadliest Ray cavity radar to gain signatures after a previously set delay (to lower the number of friendly-fire incidents), and a small set of vacuum tubes filter the signatures by size (ship-sized targets) and distance (selecting the closest one only).  Another set of tubes guide the servos controlling the rear fins in order to point the missile towards the closest target, allowing it to home in. Lastly, a proximity sensor in the belly of the missile (either borrowed from the Piracy Warning or using a radar altimeter, whichever is easiest) allows the missile to dictate its altitude over the ocean surface. When within a set distance of its target (100 meters or so) the missile will descend in order to meet the target at sea level. During the last few kilometers of approach the missile can be set to fire off chaff and flares to counteract any interception, and fires off the afterburner to gain higher speed. Sensors can be substituted by additional payload and a simple inertial guidance system (similar to the one we should have on the Artemis rockets) when trying to hit stationary targets or commit strategic bombardment. The warhead is basically huge HEAT explosive, which further power should be boosted by any leftover fuel.

The missile will include a pack of paint cans and stencils in aggresive (teeth, evil looking eyes, flames and such) or patriotic (flags, emblems, "All pirates get the Noose" phrases") patterns, so crews will be able to personalize their missiles, which will surely boost morale.


Quote from: Designs
UFAF-A-44 ‘Manta’(1): Lightforger
UFN-BB-43 'Victorious' (4): Madman, Kashyyk, Zanzetkuken, helmacon
UFN-ASM-44 'Saltseeker' (5): Jilladilla, Taricus, eS, Powder Miner, Conscript Five
UFN-ASM-44 'Saltseeker' (With ARAC and shore launch capability): NAV
UFN-SSCM-44 "Whatever": (1) Wizgrot
UFN-SSCM-44 "Noose": (1) Kot
« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 07:53:07 am by Kot »
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Kot finishes his morning routine in the same way he always does, by burning a scale replica of Saint Basil's Cathedral on the windowsill.

andrea

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Winter 1944 (Design Phase)
« Reply #6498 on: July 02, 2018, 02:55:45 pm »



Quote from: Designs
UFAF-A-44 ‘Manta’(1): Lightforger
UFN-BB-43 'Victorious' (4): Madman, Kashyyk, Zanzetkuken, helmacon
UFN-ASM-44 'Saltseeker' (5): Jilladilla, Taricus, eS, Powder Miner, Conscript Five
UFN-ASM-44 'Saltseeker' (With ARAC and shore launch capability): NAV
UFN-SSCM-44 "Whatever": (1) Wizgrot
UFN-SSCM-44 "Noose": (2) Kot, Andrea

I hate when people cut votes. Noose is a good name.

Wizgrot

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Winter 1944 (Design Phase)
« Reply #6499 on: July 02, 2018, 02:58:59 pm »




Quote from: Designs
UFAF-A-44 ‘Manta’(1): Lightforger
UFN-BB-43 'Victorious' (4): Madman, Kashyyk, Zanzetkuken, helmacon
UFN-ASM-44 'Saltseeker' (4): Jilladilla, Taricus, eS, Conscript Five
UFN-ASM-44 'Saltseeker' (With ARAC and shore launch capability): NAV
UFN-SSCM-44 "Whatever":
UFN-SSCM-44 "Noose": (4) Kot, Wizgrot, Powder Miner, Andrea
« Last Edit: July 02, 2018, 03:33:27 pm by Wizgrot »
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NAV

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Winter 1944 (Design Phase)
« Reply #6500 on: July 02, 2018, 03:08:53 pm »

Quote from: Designs
UFAF-A-44 ‘Manta’(1): Lightforger
UFN-BB-43 'Victorious' (4): Madman, Kashyyk, Zanzetkuken, helmacon
UFN-ASM-44 'Saltseeker' (4): Jilladilla, Taricus, eS, Conscript Five
UFN-ASM-44 'Saltseeker' (With ARAC and shore launch capability):
UFN-SSCM-44 "Whatever":
UFN-SSCM-44 "Noose": (5) Kot, Wizgrot, Powder Miner, Andrea, NAV
« Last Edit: July 02, 2018, 03:18:42 pm by NAV »
Logged
Highmax…dead, flesh torn from him, though his skill with the sword was unmatched…military…Nearly destroyed .. Rhunorah... dead... Mastahcheese returns...dead. Gaul...alive, still locked in combat. NAV...Alive, drinking booze....
The face on the toaster does not look like one of mercy.

Madman198237

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Winter 1944 (Design Phase)
« Reply #6501 on: July 02, 2018, 04:39:35 pm »

I was hoping the battleship would win---battleships were the best AA platforms of WWII, which would help us a bit, I imagine, given that our superior tactics can lure enemies over the battleships below. They were also, by war's end, pretty much unsinkable by destroyers and MTBs assuming any degree of competence (or radar. Radar covers a lot of mistakes for warship tactics) on the part of the battleship's captain and his escorts. The battleship gives us a solid advantage using tech that was all finalized in 1939 (year the Iowa-class was laid down), in fact using a worse version of the techs involved in the Iowa-class. Almost all of which we already have. The battleship shouldn't be difficult and we should get everything we ask for, simply because apparently we can play in the 60s (well, the Cannalans can, anyway) and this is a much simpler (if larger) design. The missile would give us a tremendous advantage IF we get the 50s/60s tech down in the design, by no means guaranteed. However, if the missile is going to win, let's do it right.

Also, Kot's missile seems a bit feature-heavy. We don't really need to replace the engine, stripping the thing down should reduce the weight enough to give us the speed we need, HEAT is a terrible way to kill warships unless you always hit the turrets/somewhere else that's full of high explosives, and it shouldn't have different variants. ASM ONLY, don't try to make an ASM and a cruise missile all at once. Also, you should mention that there's a delay in the tracking system (can be set before launch, obviously), so it doesn't try to track friendly vessels if launched on a vessel in the middle of a formation.

EDIT:
A few notes,
Don't use a multi-stage design it's adding complexity for very little gain. Just mount the rocket boosters on the side of the missile. So when you hit the fire button all it has to do is ignite the boosters and have a kerosene starter ignite the turbojet. Versus igniting the rockets, waiting until it's empty, using something to decouple it from the missile and, then start the turbojet.
Do use multiple stages. Separating stages is as simple as popping a black powder charge roughly the size of your thumb. Heck, you could probably manage to separate stages just by using gas leakage from the first stage (assuming you're using a solid rocket motor, all you'd need to do is drill a tiny hole or set of holes around the edge of the rocket motor's casing. When the burn finishes the fuel, the holes will be uncovered and the flames/heat can ignite a black powder charge to super-pressurize that compartment, pushing the first stage off (and igniting the second stage if necessary).
« Last Edit: July 02, 2018, 05:55:21 pm by Madman198237 »
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VoidSlayer

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Winter 1944 (Design Phase)
« Reply #6502 on: July 02, 2018, 09:01:16 pm »

So we are now shooting super sonic jets at ships.  Both designs strapped rockets to a missile so that is a plus.

I guess the Saltseeker doesn't start from throwing our most expensive planes in missile form at ships, so I'll go with that?

Quote from: Designs
UFAF-A-44 ‘Manta’(1): Lightforger
UFN-BB-43 'Victorious' (4): Madman, Kashyyk, Zanzetkuken, helmacon
UFN-ASM-44 'Saltseeker' (5): Jilladilla, Taricus, eS, Conscript Five, voidslayer
UFN-ASM-44 'Saltseeker' (With ARAC and shore launch capability):
UFN-SSCM-44 "Whatever":
UFN-SSCM-44 "Noose": (5) Kot, Wizgrot, Powder Miner, Andrea, NAV

Also if we were going to make a new ship, why not a submarine instead of a battleship?

Powder Miner

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Winter 1944 (Design Phase)
« Reply #6503 on: July 02, 2018, 09:07:58 pm »

Actually, Voidslayer, the Noose does not use the VVF (Except for in engines in a fucking abortion of a built lmao), it uses the Lightning Streak.
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Kot

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Winter 1944 (Design Phase)
« Reply #6504 on: July 02, 2018, 10:50:20 pm »

Also, Kot's missile seems a bit feature-heavy. We don't really need to replace the engine, stripping the thing down should reduce the weight enough to give us the speed we need,
I'm not a fan of the engine swap, but people decided it's a good idea.

HEAT is a terrible way to kill warships unless you always hit the turrets/somewhere else that's full of high explosives,
It's what the ASMs of the 50s use (aside from nuclear warheads, since that's a thing), because they figured out it's much better than regular explosive/pentration.

and it shouldn't have different variants. ASM ONLY, don't try to make an ASM and a cruise missile all at once.
We're not making a cruise missile and ASM. We're making an ASM with a capability to be dumb fired or guided by radio, both of which should be literally trivial.

Also, you should mention that there's a delay in the tracking system (can be set before launch, obviously), so it doesn't try to track friendly vessels if launched on a vessel in the middle of a formation.
Fair point, actually.
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Olith McHuman

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Winter 1944 (Design Phase)
« Reply #6505 on: July 02, 2018, 11:16:37 pm »

Quote from: Designs
UFAF-A-44 ‘Manta’(1): Lightforger
UFN-BB-43 'Victorious' (4): Madman, Kashyyk, Zanzetkuken, helmacon
UFN-ASM-44 'Saltseeker' (6): Jilladilla, Taricus, eS, Conscript Five, voidslayer, McHuman
UFN-ASM-44 'Saltseeker' (With ARAC and shore launch capability):
UFN-SSCM-44 "Whatever":
UFN-SSCM-44 "Noose": (5) Kot, Wizgrot, Powder Miner, Andrea, NAV

I like the ship, but I don't like 3 way ties...
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Zanzetkuken The Great

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Winter 1944 (Design Phase)
« Reply #6506 on: July 02, 2018, 11:38:18 pm »

Quote from: Designs
UFAF-A-44 ‘Manta’(1): Lightforger
UFN-BB-43 'Victorious' (4): Madman, Kashyyk, helmacon
UFN-ASM-44 'Saltseeker' (6): Jilladilla, Taricus, eS, Conscript Five, voidslayer, McHuman
UFN-ASM-44 'Saltseeker' (With ARAC and shore launch capability):
UFN-SSCM-44 "Whatever":
UFN-SSCM-44 "Noose": (6) Kot, Wizgrot, Powder Miner, Andrea, NAV, Zanzetkuken

Fuck it.  If we are being forced into this, might as well get the one with multiple locations of noted mounts.
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Olith McHuman

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Winter 1944 (Design Phase)
« Reply #6507 on: July 03, 2018, 12:44:42 am »

Bah. If it's still a tie when you see this Sensi, move me to the Noose.
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Light forger

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Winter 1944 (Design Phase)
« Reply #6508 on: July 03, 2018, 12:50:22 am »

In regards to the we can't make a cruise missile thing that's nonsense. This thing was was able to hit 4 out of 14 targets which sounds poor until you see it had no active guidance what so ever and was made in 1918. The only other option is a rocket sounds ok until you notice we don't even have liquid rocket fuel.

About the warhead's HEAT charge or to be more precisely shaped charge they are still in use today. The ASM has a charge of 400kg compared to something like a RPG or MBT cannon which as around 10kg, so there is a order of magnitude of difference. Also it's not just having slab of supersonic metal slamming into the ship at point blank range, there is also a bunch of hyper-compressed and super-heated jet fuel as well. Which turns the inside of the ship into an impromptu furnace, cooking off near by ammo and igniting fuel. Even if it lands in a part of the ship without that it will weaken the steel to the point where that part of the ship collapses into itself.

In regards to multiple stages there are harder then they sound especially on full size rockets made in 1944. The bumper program had 5 out of 8 tries to mount another rocket on top of a V2 fail. Also we aren't losing much from the extra drag and weight; hitting a rocket even if it's subsonic is really hard and the range of any ASM is going to be many kilometers more then what we can actually use. It's better to get a crude and usable rocket then an elegant and theoretical one.

Quote from: Designs
UFN-BB-43 'Victorious'(3): Madman, Kashyyk, helmacon
UFN-ASM-44 'Saltseeker' (7): Jilladilla, Taricus, eS, Conscript Five, voidslayer, McHuman, Lightforger
UFN-SSCM-44 "Noose": (6) Kot, Wizgrot, Powder Miner, Andrea, NAV, Zanzetkuken
« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 03:38:18 am by Light forger »
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RAM

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Winter 1944 (Design Phase)
« Reply #6509 on: July 03, 2018, 02:14:42 am »

I really wanted an air-dropped one, but...
Stuff that sounds stuff-like
meh...

Quote from: Designs
UFN-BB-43 'Victorious'(3): Madman, Kashyyk, helmacon
UFN-ASM-44 'Saltseeker' (8): Jilladilla, Taricus, eS, Conscript Five, voidslayer, McHuman, Lightforger, RAM
UFN-SSCM-44 "Noose": (6) Kot, Wizgrot, Powder Miner, Andrea, NAV, Zanzetkuken

But, umm, could someone actually point out the key points of difference between crystals and cables?
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