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Glorious Arstotzka

17 (16%)

Glorious Moskurg

13 (12.3%)

Ingloriously Didn't Play

76 (71.7%)

Total Members Voted: 106

[Jilladilla]

2 RDN-41-3 Deadliest Ray Mk. DEADLY: evictedSaint, Madman
2 UF-ERA-42 'Blood Eagle': Powder Miner, Jilladilla

The Blood Eagle shall fly!

[RAM]

Well sure, but if the coolant system gets all shot up then it is going to have a bad time regardless. Properly treated aluminium can be quite resistant to environmental conditions and the engine is already going to be heavy so reducing the weight of its coolant apparatus could be beneficial to weight distribution. A small amount of aluminium is a free exchange from steel, if we have the resources spare and they would actually help, then we wouldn't want to force aluminium off of the design. I don't know how aluminium reacts to temperature changes, so perhaps the radiator plan wouldn't work, but if it did it seems way better to get an otherwise slightly better tank for free in exchange for a tiny chance of a fire that is only an issue if you are already getting shot to pieces or badly outflanked.

Of course, as nice, and potentially necessary, as a main battle tank is, it is extremely unlikely that it will ever be airdropped, or even airlifted... Without something that can stand and fight when tanks show up, airdropped forces will never be more than a delaying action until the real forces can reinforce them... With a heavy tank destroyer that can be dropped in three or so parts and assembled in the field we could have air-dropped forces that could actually confront a proper army. And it would give us something that could likely outgun and out armour their tanks in the intervening time. Yes it would have glaring flaws and not replace the need for tanks, but it could potentially replace the need for heavy tanks and let us focus on lighter stuff for when we need more mobility than a clunky unidirectional tank destroyer can achieve.

[NAV]

2 RDN-41-3 Deadliest Ray Mk. DEADLY: evictedSaint, Madman
3 UF-ERA-42 'Blood Eagle': Powder Miner, Jilladilla, NAV

The Blood Eagle shall fly!

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

I was personally thinking the aluminum could be used for the spaced armor, as its job is more around disruption rather than directly stopping the shells, so the thinner nature of it wouldn't lead to as much of an issue, and the distance from other sections reduces the damage fires can cause.  Alternatively, use it for pipes (preferably water or other fire dousing liquid) or something similar.  As for manganese, I was thinking it could be used in alloy form to strengthen the armor of the skirts protecting the treads, since manganese steel boosts the armor by 1 level.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Here's a thought.  Why not make something like the ISU-152 using the Cataphract's guns for it?  Kot brought the idea up in the discord, and a couple images.  First is what a HE from it did to a Panther.  Second is what an AP did to a Tiger II.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

More here: http://tankarchives.blogspot.com/2013/03/suisu-152-vs-german-big-cats.html

Still, I think even just those two get the point across.  I mean, just imagine what HEAT would do and recall the Bull seems lighter armored than those tanks...

[Taricus]

The big issue is the weight of the gun. We have to make that thing mobile and spending all the weight on the gun isn't going to leave us with much armour.

[10ebbor10]

Also, it wouldn't be that usefull. Can't deploy it in beach landings.

[andrea]

well, we do need a lander anyway. We can't hope to just air lift everything.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

The big issue is the weight of the gun. We have to make that thing mobile and spending all the weight on the gun isn't going to leave us with much armour.

Look at the ISU-152's specs.  Thing's got the class of heavy armor all over, with the mantlet ordinarily having Extra Heavy.  Model 1945 has armor of 320mm in places.  Standard is a 30 km/h on road with 15-20 km/h crosscountry, upgraded to 40 km/h on road with the 1945.

What was that about being unable to make it mobile and having to lack armor?

Also, it wouldn't be that usefull. Can't deploy it in beach landings.

There's areas other than beaches.  Like say, their bloody landing on our continent.

[RAM]

The 152 is over 40 tonnes, it won't fly...
And it has much of the same mobility issues that my proposal has.

If we want a tank then we may as well get a tank and have some cavalry. If we want something extreme then we should take advantage of the bonus we get to insane proposals from this being a game and do something crazy, like a railgun. I mean, the basic theory of railguns existed, capacitors were a thing, jet turbines are quite good generators... The W.W.II railgun apparently was never more than a rough draft of a hypothetical proposal, but they had a lot of things cooking at the time and electric guns are not the most exciting idea. rue enough, it most likely wouldn't have worked, but they did actually propose one... according to Wikipaedia... We were planning to upgun the Archer and an 80mm railgun would be hilarious.

We can't hope to just air lift everything.

I respect your opinion but choose to disagree.

[Taricus]

Which happens to be in a jungle, somewhere which casemated guns will not be effective. Besides, it's dry season next turn and we'll be able to bomb them to nothing. A large, fuckoff gun isn't what we need, just a gun that's powerful enough to punch through their armour reliably while the rest of the chassis is well protected and light enough to be manoeuvrable.

[andrea]

I wouldn't go beyond 100 mm. Anyway, we have a couple of tank designs around that seem good.

[10ebbor10]

2 RDN-41-3 Deadliest Ray Mk. DEADLY: evictedSaint, Madman
4 UF-ERA-42 'Blood Eagle': Powder Miner, Jilladilla, NAV , 10ebbor10

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Screw it, might as well toss a few proposals up.  Can't guarantee quality as really late.  Largest turreted gun is a 75mm, so a 50% upgrade can get us to a 112 without much difficulty.  Closer to a more modern gun caliber from the looks of things here, so why not?


UF-HT-42 "Annihilator" Pattern A
A Heavy Tank, this monster utilizes a large V12 engine.  It uses a 110mm sliding block breach cannon as its primary armament mounted within a electronic traversal turret, with a shell-ejector system added to allow for quicker reloading.  The tank is also armed with a coaxial mounted UF-AC41 and a pintle mounted M3 Sorraia.  The turret is armored with 160mm of sloped Rolled Homogenous Armor (Super Heavy), and while the main body is not armored to the same degree, it's frontal hull is still heavily armored with 120mm sloped RHA (Extra Heavy), has 85mm of armor upon the sides and rear hull (Heavy), and has 40mm of armor in armored skirts protecting the base of the turret and the treads, as well as being utilized as the size of the tank's spaced armor (Medium).  The armored skirts are made of Manganese steel alloy and the piping for the coolant systems, as well as some other internal parts, are composed of Aluminium.

Target Cost: 8 Ore (1 Mn, 1 Al), 4 Oil.  (Very expensive first turn, but historically Canalla has needed a Massive Naval Advantage to land in the north, not something I think they will get in one turn, so this is likely to drop to Expensive)

UF-HT-42 "Annihilator" Pattern B
A Heavy Tank, this monster utilizes a large V12 engine.  It uses a 110mm sliding block breach cannon as its primary armament mounted within a electronic traversal turret, with a shell-ejector system added to allow for quicker reloading.  The tank is also armed with a coaxial mounted UF-AC41 and a pintle mounted M3 Sorraia.  The turret is armored with 120mm of sloped Rolled Homogenous Armor (Extra Heavy), and while the main body is not armored to the same degree, it's frontal hull is still heavily armored with 90mm sloped RHA (Heavy), has 70mm of armor upon the sides and rear hull (Heavy), and has 40mm of armor in armored skirts protecting the base of the turret and the treads as well as being utilized as the size of the tank's spaced armor (Medium).  The armored skirts are made of Manganese steel alloy and the piping for the coolant systems, as well as some other internal parts, are composed of Aluminium.

Target Cost: 7 Ore (1 Mn, 1 Al), 4 Oil.

UF-TD-42 "Endbringer"
A Tank Destroyer that utilizes a large V12 engine.  It uses a casemated 150mm gun taken from the UFN-CA-41 Catraphract.  The tank destroyer is also armed with a coaxial mounted UF-AC41 and a pintle mounted M3 Sorraia.  The front is armored with 160mm of sloped Rolled Homogenous Armor (Super Heavy), and has 85mm of armor upon the sides and rear hull (Heavy).  It has 40mm of armor in armored skirts protecting the treads  The armored skirts are made of Manganese steel alloy and the piping for the coolant systems are composed of Aluminium.

Target Cost: 7 Ore (1 Mn, 1 Al), 4 Oil.

[Taricus]

The problem with using the DT33's cannon is the screw breech it uses. That will severely limit the fire rate of those guns, and trying to stuff aluminium on a tank will not work out well.