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Which team did you play in the last game?

Glorious Arstotzka
- 17 (16%)
Glorious Moskurg
- 13 (12.3%)
Ingloriously Didn't Play
- 76 (71.7%)

Total Members Voted: 106


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Author Topic: Intercontinental Arms Race: Finale  (Read 592229 times)

andrea

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Spring 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #3570 on: June 08, 2017, 10:07:17 am »

I think it is because the actual text of the revision only makes a token reference to decomplexing.
it may be present in a bulletpoint, but the proposed revision doesn't look like it would actually do anything to make it simpler. It proposes to create new better alloys and improve performance, but I have an hard time understanding how it makes the manufacturing process less complex.
Sure, it may become less complex because of more experience, but then that is not a primary focus.

« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 10:08:56 am by andrea »
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Spring 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #3571 on: June 08, 2017, 10:09:42 am »

Because whilst you list that as a goal, and say that you want to do that, the actual text of the revision is all about making new (potentially more complicated) alloys. You can list anything as a goal, but if you don't give a sensible way of attaining it, Sensei is probably going to ignore it.

Just add a bit to your suggestion about streamlining production. That's not hard, since as you probably know, the production of jet engines is in many ways easier than piston engines. Do that, and I (and I suspect others) will vote for it.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Spring 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #3572 on: June 08, 2017, 10:19:50 am »

Fine.

aTJ04 "Marketing Department revision"

In an attempt to improve the ease of production of the engine, while also improving it's capabilities, Artotzkan metallurgists were brought on board the jet engine design project. They immediately suggests a series of significant improvements.

First, they note that Titanium will oxidize in high temperature environments. This results in extreme brittleness and eventual violent disintegration of the engine. As such, they endeavor to reduce Titanium use within the engine to a minimum, lowering costs and reducing instances of spontaneous engine disintegration.

A small amount of Aluminum is added to the alloy used in the hot parts of the engine, allowing the use of lower quality steel (which is cheaper and less complex to make) without any loss of performance or reliability. At the same time, the Turbine blades are replaced with a Steel-Maganese alloy. This alloy allows the Turbine blades to be folded and welded, replacing the complex forging process previously required.

Conservative estimates show that these improvements should not only greatly reduce complexity, but also allow for a certain performance margin to be reclaimed.

« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 10:21:49 am by 10ebbor10 »
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Spring 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #3573 on: June 08, 2017, 10:26:13 am »

Eh. It's not quite what I hoped for, but fine, I'll vote for it. I hope you don't mind if I call it the aT-J04 B in the vote box? Feel free to change it if you do.
Quote
0 (RAM)Phased Death Ray radar:
0 (RAM)"P.J." HAFB bomber with jet engines:
1 (RAM)Bouncing Beans booster rockets: NAV
1 (RAM)Archer pattern "R.B." rocket boat: Kashyyk
3 (10ebbor10)aTJ04 Jet engine: Sheb, 10ebbor10, Chiefwaffles
1 (10ebbor10)aT-J04 B: NUKE9.13
4 (Light forger+andrea)Lighting Jet Engine Manufacturing: Piratejoe, Taricus, Stabby, Azzuro
0 (RAM)Thunderedge Revised jet fighter:
2 (Nuke9.13) aT-J05: SMMI, Andrea
0 ():
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Long Live United Forenia!

Parsely

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Spring 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #3574 on: June 08, 2017, 11:37:22 am »

I'm on board for better performance + decomplex.

Quote
0 (RAM)Phased Death Ray radar:
0 (RAM)"P.J." HAFB bomber with jet engines:
1 (RAM)Bouncing Beans booster rockets: NAV
1 (RAM)Archer pattern "R.B." rocket boat: Kashyyk
3 (10ebbor10)aTJ04 Jet engine: Sheb, 10ebbor10, Chiefwaffles
2 (10ebbor10)aT-J04 B: NUKE9.13, GUNINANRUNIN
4 (Light forger+andrea)Lighting Jet Engine Manufacturing: Piratejoe, Taricus, Stabby, Azzuro
0 (RAM)Thunderedge Revised jet fighter:
2 (Nuke9.13) aT-J05: SMMI, Andrea
0 ():
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Madman198237

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Spring 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #3575 on: June 08, 2017, 12:17:34 pm »

Quote
0 Phased Death Ray radar:
0 "P.J." HAFB bomber with jet engines:
1 Bouncing Beans booster rockets: NAV
1 Archer pattern "R.B." rocket boat: Kashyyk
3 aTJ04 Jet engine: Sheb, 10ebbor10, Chiefwaffles
3 aT-J04 B: NUKE9.13, GUNINANRUNIN, Madman198237
4 Lighting Jet Engine Manufacturing: Piratejoe, Taricus, Stabby, Azzuro
0 Thunderedge Revised jet fighter:
2 aT-J05: SMMI, Andrea

Was there a reason we were tracking the design originators? That shouldn't matter in the slightest.
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VoidSlayer

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Spring 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #3576 on: June 08, 2017, 12:21:45 pm »


Quote
0 Phased Death Ray radar:
0 "P.J." HAFB bomber with jet engines:
1 Bouncing Beans booster rockets: NAV
1 Archer pattern "R.B." rocket boat: Kashyyk
4 aTJ04 Jet engine: Sheb, 10ebbor10, Chiefwaffles, voidslayer
3 aT-J04 B: NUKE9.13, GUNINANRUNIN, Madman198237
4 Lighting Jet Engine Manufacturing: Piratejoe, Taricus, Stabby, Azzuro
0 Thunderedge Revised jet fighter:
2 aT-J05: SMMI, Andrea

I'll vote for 10ebbor10's proposal, whichever he ends up with.  We may disagree on whether a navy should be created but I agree we need a better jet engine, not just a cheaper one.

andrea

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Spring 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #3577 on: June 08, 2017, 01:56:16 pm »



Quote
0 Phased Death Ray radar:
0 "P.J." HAFB bomber with jet engines:
1 Bouncing Beans booster rockets: NAV
1 Archer pattern "R.B." rocket boat: Kashyyk
4 aTJ04 Jet engine: Sheb, 10ebbor10, Chiefwaffles, voidslayer
4 aT-J04 B: NUKE9.13, GUNINANRUNIN, Madman198237, Andrea
4 Lighting Jet Engine Manufacturing: Piratejoe, Taricus, Stabby, Azzuro
0 Thunderedge Revised jet fighter:
1 aT-J05: SMMI

somemildmanneredidiot

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Spring 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #3578 on: June 08, 2017, 01:58:07 pm »



Quote
0 Phased Death Ray radar:
0 "P.J." HAFB bomber with jet engines:
1 Bouncing Beans booster rockets: NAV
1 Archer pattern "R.B." rocket boat: Kashyyk
4 aTJ04 Jet engine: Sheb, 10ebbor10, Chiefwaffles, voidslayer
5 aT-J04 B: NUKE9.13, GUNINANRUNIN, Madman198237, Andrea, SMMI
4 Lighting Jet Engine Manufacturing: Piratejoe, Taricus, Stabby, Azzuro
0 Thunderedge Revised jet fighter:
0 aT-J05:
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Azzuro

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Spring 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #3579 on: June 08, 2017, 02:04:46 pm »

Quote
0 Phased Death Ray radar:
0 "P.J." HAFB bomber with jet engines:
1 Bouncing Beans booster rockets: NAV
1 Archer pattern "R.B." rocket boat: Kashyyk
4 aTJ04 Jet engine: Sheb, 10ebbor10, Chiefwaffles, voidslayer
6 aT-J04 B: NUKE9.13, GUNINANRUNIN, Madman198237, Andrea, SMMI, Azzuro
3 Lighting Jet Engine Manufacturing: Piratejoe, Taricus, Stabby
0 Thunderedge Revised jet fighter:
0 aT-J05:
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3_14159

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Spring 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #3580 on: June 08, 2017, 03:40:11 pm »

Quote
0 Phased Death Ray radar:
0 "P.J." HAFB bomber with jet engines:
1 Bouncing Beans booster rockets: NAV
1 Archer pattern "R.B." rocket boat: Kashyyk
4 aTJ04 Jet engine: Sheb, 10ebbor10, Chiefwaffles, voidslayer
7 aT-J04 B: NUKE9.13, GUNINANRUNIN, Madman198237, Andrea, SMMI, Azzuro, 3_14159
3 Lighting Jet Engine Manufacturing: Piratejoe, Taricus, Stabby
0 Thunderedge Revised jet fighter:
0 aT-J05:
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Sheb

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Spring 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #3581 on: June 08, 2017, 03:43:50 pm »

I'll move to the aTJ04-B to break the deadlock. Also, it's a 10ebbor10 design.
Quote
0 Phased Death Ray radar:
0 "P.J." HAFB bomber with jet engines:
1 Bouncing Beans booster rockets: NAV
1 Archer pattern "R.B." rocket boat: Kashyyk
3 aTJ04 Jet engine:10ebbor10, Chiefwaffles, voidslayer
8 aT-J04 B: NUKE9.13, GUNINANRUNIN, Madman198237, Andrea, SMMI, Azzuro, 3_14159, Sheb
3 Lighting Jet Engine Manufacturing: Piratejoe, Taricus, Stabby
0 Thunderedge Revised jet fighter:
0 aT-J05:


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RAM

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Winter 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #3582 on: June 08, 2017, 04:37:00 pm »

UFAF-F-40 "Thunderbird": [Very Expensive] This is a jet aircraft, powered by two of Forenia's first functional turbojet engines. It is a relatively small fighter, the pilot sits in a round glass cockpit with two AS-AC18 cannons and a Sorraia in the nose. The wings are as narrow as possible, low-mounted and swept back, and have small wing fences to prevent sweep-related instability. The tail is relatively high-mounted to put it outside the jet wash from the wings. It also features air brakes. The Thunderbird's aT-J03 engines are relatively small, axial-flow turbojets, and they are somewhat 1crude in nature. The 2interior of the turbojet becomes extremely hot, necessitating high-temperature alloys, and they burn lean using excess air for cooling. The two engines 3burn kerosene, and lots of it, and they sit in nacelles under the wings- each generates almost as much power as a Haast engine. Overall the aircraft has a speed a significantly faster than the Stinger (though much less than what these new turbojets are theorized to be capable of), and its jet engines have a higher altitude ceiling. The air brakes are a good choice, because the 4jet engines must maintain a lot of thrust at their minimum speed to avoid a flame out, so landings and slower combat engagements benefit from them. Requires a long runway for takeoff. Right now, the engines are [Complex] and require frequent maintenance. [4 Ore (1 Ti), 4 Oil]
Looking at the problems...
1: complex, it should not take much to fix this, I would expect that merely asuccessful revision would be enough.
2: Overheating and thus running below optimal performance. Annular doesn't seem like it would help much with the primary problem. Spreading the heat out would be nice, but it is still getting too hot in there. Increasing the heat tolerance would be good, but I still feel that it needs a redesign to reduce the heat buildup as much of the current problem is that it is expending air on cooling that it could be using on thrust, and if there is insufficient cooling then it will just keep heating until something gives.
3: Fuel hog. Annular would probably help here, and we could look into other fuels. Probably a refinement of the combustion spaces/mixture and turbine efficiency would be the best way to fix it. Although if we can fix the cooling system it may get a lot more power with very little extra fuel consuption as running lean is likely inefficient.
4: No slow. Not much can be done here. We could probably brute-force some sort of perpetual flame, but that sounds messy...

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend.
That is a massive relief to hear, and thankyou very much for the advice. I fear I shan't be taking it, I am ridiculously stubborn about such things, but I accept my ideas being passed as a due price.Other people can reinterpret* my ideas* too, even with different names, even with different names and identical content. Annoying, yes, but I'll endure!
Oh, and apologies for being aggressive. When I see an argument my first impulse is to jump on it and start biting. It is sort of a bad habit I know, but, argh, when you see a little speculation snuffling about with its conclusions and you think maybe it might be about to get one its assumptions caught in a paradox, you just can't help but to absent-mindedly lean forwards and start wiggling your hind-quarters in preparation...

*within the context of submissions to this forum game...
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 07:33:57 pm by RAM »
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piratejoe

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Spring 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #3583 on: June 08, 2017, 06:28:30 pm »

Quote
0 Phased Death Ray radar:
0 "P.J." HAFB bomber with jet engines:
1 Bouncing Beans booster rockets: NAV
1 Archer pattern "R.B." rocket boat: Kashyyk
3 aTJ04 Jet engine:10ebbor10, Chiefwaffles, voidslayer
9 aT-J04 B: NUKE9.13, GUNINANRUNIN, Madman198237, Andrea, SMMI, Azzuro, 3_14159, Sheb, Piratejoe
2 Lighting Jet Engine Manufacturing:, Taricus, Stabby
0 Thunderedge Revised jet fighter:
0 aT-J05:
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evictedSaint

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Spring 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #3584 on: June 10, 2017, 01:02:19 am »

From Discord:

Quote
evictedSaint - Today at 1:00 AM
can we get transistors free in a revision

Sensei - Today at 1:01 AM
Yup easy go for it

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