Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

Glorious Arstotzka

17 (16%)

Glorious Moskurg

13 (12.3%)

Ingloriously Didn't Play

76 (71.7%)

Total Members Voted: 106

[10ebbor10]

I think if using manganese and aluminium was important, we would've used them the last time we improved the alloys.

That's just silly.

By the same logic, there's no point in decomplexifying our jet engines, because if it were important, we would have done when we designed the plane.

The GM is not going to do our research for us. If you write a generic "improve engine" revision, don't be surprised to get a generic improved engine. It does not in any way imply that there weren't any better ways for us to have improved the engine. If we don't mention the possibility, it doesn't happen.

An example is the Cannalan fighter. We didn't mention the use of aluminum in the frame, and hence there's none. The Cannalan's did, and hence there is.

And yes, it would be harder. I said as much. But de-[Complex]-ifying is the most important thing. If you also want performance improvements, it's going to be harder.

You proposed the aT-J05 as a compromise, while I'm pointing out that is worse than either of the proposals it's supposed to be a compromise between. It's harder than the aT-J04 and harder than the generic engine revision.

[somemildmanneredidiot]

0 (RAM)Phased Death Ray radar:
0 (RAM)"P.J." HAFB bomber with jet engines:
1 (RAM)Bouncing Beans booster rockets: NAV
1 (RAM)Archer pattern "R.B." rocket boat: Kashyyk
3 (10ebbor10)aTJ04 Jet engine: Sheb, 10ebbor10, Chiefwaffles
6 (Light forger+andrea)Lighting Jet Engine Manufacturing: Andrea, NUKE9.13, Piratejoe, Taricus, Stabby, Azzuro
0 (RAM)Thunderedge Revised jet fighter:
1 (Nuke9.13) aT-J05: SMMI
0 ():

That compromise works for me.

[andrea]

0 (RAM)Phased Death Ray radar:
0 (RAM)"P.J." HAFB bomber with jet engines:
1 (RAM)Bouncing Beans booster rockets: NAV
1 (RAM)Archer pattern "R.B." rocket boat: Kashyyk
3 (10ebbor10)aTJ04 Jet engine: Sheb, 10ebbor10, Chiefwaffles
5 (Light forger+andrea)Lighting Jet Engine Manufacturing: NUKE9.13, Piratejoe, Taricus, Stabby, Azzuro
0 (RAM)Thunderedge Revised jet fighter:
2 (Nuke9.13) aT-J05: SMMI, Andrea
0 ():

works for me as well, it might be a little harder, but allows both performance and decomplexing, without risking expense growth or messing with new alloys which might compensate the reduced complexity from experience.

[10ebbor10]

Uhm, feeling a bit ignored here.

It's not because Nuke called it a compromise that it's a good idea. His annular combustion chamber is a modern design, as far as I found it was developped in the late 1960, early 1970's. It's not at all realistic, or even a remotely sensible idea.

[andrea]

ok, that is a good point, it being a 60's design. A new path of improvement should be found.

And no, I am still not convinced by throwing alloys at the problem.

[Sheb]

Well, if I get the anti-alloy camp's concern correctly, the main issue is that more specialized ressources would need more TCs, right?

[Taricus]

More resources in general, which would require more TC.

[10ebbor10]

The specialized resources used are on our island.

Their fear is that by mentioning the possibility of price increase, Sensei will raise the normal ore price for some reason.

[somemildmanneredidiot]

Ebbor, the only reason why I'm voting for Nuke's design is because it's what I thought the Light/Andrea design would accomplishment, solving the complexity while making some small improvements if we roll well. I don't understand jet engines well enough to have commentary and am trusting in the revisioners to have their stuff sorted. If you have a minor improvement recommendation or can rephrase yours such that the de[Complex]ity is the major focus with improvements being secondary, I'd love to hear about it.

[10ebbor10]

Nuke's proposal uses a combustion chamber that I'm pretty sure was invented around the 1970's. I shouldn't have to explain why that isn't a good idea.

[somemildmanneredidiot]

Oh definitely, we're talking about different minor improvements over on the Discord inbetween the shitposting. I wasn't joking avout wanting to hear your ideas about alternatives.

[NUKE9.13]

It's not because Nuke called it a compromise that it's a good idea. His annular combustion chamber is a modern design, as far as I found it was developped in the late 1960, early 1970's. It's not at all realistic, or even a remotely sensible idea.

Well actually. <That engine used an annular combustor in 1943, and was in development in 1941.

I think if using manganese and aluminium was important, we would've used them the last time we improved the alloys.

That's just silly.

By the same logic, there's no point in decomplexifying our jet engines, because if it were important, we would have done when we designed the plane.

The revision for the aT-J03 specified that we would use the best alloys we could create. This was the result:

Normal: 3
aT-J03: Subtle tweaks to the amount of metals in the alloy used for critical components of the aT-J01 jet engine, and a special forging process, have allowed higher rotational speeds and larger turbine and compressor blades. The improved engine is still small, but a single unit can provide as much thrust as the engine used in the Haast, while being lighter.

Now, to be fair, that was on a three. There is still room for improvement when it comes to our alloys, which might involve using our strategic resources. But we didn't have to say "We're using titanium in the jet engines", Sensei just put it in there because that's what makes sense. Similarly, if we say "We improve the alloys", we get the alloys that we can make. I mean, we can go to Sensei on this, but I doubt he wants us to deliver him the chemical composition of the exact alloys we want to create.

On another note, calm down, dude. You are wildly exaggerating what I'm saying, either deliberately, or due to stress.

[10ebbor10]

Well actually. <That engine used an annular combustor in 1943, and was in development in 1941.

I went through like 12 jet engines developed in the period 1940- 1960, and none of them used Annular combustion. Probably because of this.

However, the F.2 engine suffered from a number of problems that cast doubts on its reliability. These were primarily due to hot spots building up on the turbine bearing and combustion chamber. The latter, in turn, caused warping and fractures of the turbine inlet nozzles.

This version replaced the original annular combustion chamber with can-type burners like those on the Whittle designs.

So while the Annular concept had been invented, it was not yet practical, explaining why I couldn't find it.

[NUKE9.13]

That's because the British lacked Forenian engineering spirit.

But seriously, I'm not married to annular combustors. I would be okay with any minor improvement, so long as de-[Complex]-ifying is the main focus of the revision. I could even accept trying to make our alloys even better, if that's the best thing we can think of.

[10ebbor10]

Decomplexifying is the primary focus of my revision. I even included a ranking of priorities, with decomplexifying at the top, at number 1.

I can not fathom why people would think otherwise.

There is still room for improvement when it comes to our alloys, which might involve using our strategic resources. But we didn't have to say "We're using titanium in the jet engines", Sensei just put it in there because that's what makes sense. Similarly, if we say "We improve the alloys", we get the alloys that we can make. I mean, we can go to Sensei on this, but I doubt he wants us to deliver him the chemical composition of the exact alloys we want to create.

I disagree, for the very simple that Titanium is a very bad aircraft engine alloy (It burns at 600 degrees celsius) while Manganese alloys are a fairly crappy, but better alloy. You do not want Titanium in your engine if you can avoid it.

Sensei will put requirements into stuff if it's needed to get the thing to function, but he will not put stuff in merely to benefit us.

Spoiler: Unrelated Note (click to show/hide)

On another note, calm down, dude. You are wildly exaggerating what I'm saying, either deliberately, or due to stress.

Complains about hyperbole.

I doubt he wants us to deliver him the chemical composition of the exact alloys we want to create

Uses hyperbole.