Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Poll

Which team did you play in the last game?

Glorious Arstotzka
- 17 (16%)
Glorious Moskurg
- 13 (12.3%)
Ingloriously Didn't Play
- 76 (71.7%)

Total Members Voted: 106


Pages: 1 ... 151 152 [153] 154 155 ... 500

Author Topic: Intercontinental Arms Race: Finale  (Read 599896 times)

Powder Miner

  • Bay Watcher
  • this avatar is years irrelevant again oh god oh f-
    • View Profile
Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Spring 1939 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #2280 on: May 20, 2017, 04:08:58 am »

Quote
M4 Kiger HMG: (0)
BLOODLESS EAGLE: (1) Taricus
BLOODIER EAGLE: (0)
Chum: (0)
'Archer' Pattern F: (3)Wolfhunter107, Helmacon, Baffler
'Archer' Pattern G: (2) NAV, Happerry
"Reachr" Ship Destroyer: (0)
UF-ALR-40 'SHARUKH:(2) Strongpoint, RAM
UF-ABR-40 "Shower Curtain":(1) VoidSlayer
SHMG-40 "War Horse" :(6) Mulisa, Madman198237, Piratejoe, evictedSaint, GUNINANRUNIN, Stabby
UF-AC-40: (1) Kashyyk
Infantry QoL: (4) NUKE9.13, Azzuro, Andrea, Powder Miner
Fuck it, I've been agreeing with this idea when it hasn't gotten in the way of something I want more for a while. J-j-j-jungle it.
Logged

RAM

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Summer 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #2281 on: May 20, 2017, 04:11:57 am »

I am not sure about bayonets, I doubt that they are all that effective for clearing a path through jungle...
Logged
Vote (1) for the Urist scale!
I shall be eternally happy. I shall be able to construct elf hunting giant mecha. Which can pour magma.
Urist has been forced to use a friend as fertilizer lately.
Read the First Post!

Taricus

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Summer 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #2282 on: May 20, 2017, 04:12:23 am »

Quote
M4 Kiger HMG: (0)
BLOODLESS EAGLE: (0)
BLOODIER EAGLE: (0)
Chum: (0)
'Archer' Pattern F: (3)Wolfhunter107, Helmacon, Baffler
'Archer' Pattern G: (2) NAV, Happerry
"Reachr" Ship Destroyer: (0)
UF-ALR-40 'SHARUKH:(2) Strongpoint, RAM
UF-ABR-40 "Shower Curtain":(1) VoidSlayer
SHMG-40 "War Horse" :(6) Mulisa, Madman198237, Piratejoe, evictedSaint, GUNINANRUNIN, Stabby
UF-AC-40: (1) Kashyyk
Infantry QoL: (5) NUKE9.13, Azzuro, Andrea, Powder Miner, Taricus
Better improved infantry in general than a HMG that'll see limited use.
Logged
Quote from: evictedSaint
We sided with the holocaust for a fucking +1 roll

Kashyyk

  • Bay Watcher
  • One letter short of a wookie
    • View Profile
Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Summer 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #2283 on: May 20, 2017, 04:14:29 am »

Quote
Let assume we make it 35kg. What will change?

For a start, 5kg more ammo. Or 5kg less for tanks,  planes or infantry to carry around. You're also forgetting that the revision will improve ammo swapping,  general reliability, accuracy and cost improvements that will be applicable due to it being a 22 year old design.

Instead, people are suggesting we use a revision to create basically the same weapon, from scratch, without armour piercing capability.

As such, I will tactically switch have my vote to QoL as well. I'd prefer the auto cannon,  but this will still be way more useful than a SHMG.

Quote
M4 Kiger HMG: (0)
BLOODLESS EAGLE: (0)
BLOODIER EAGLE: (0)
Chum: (0)
'Archer' Pattern F: (3)Wolfhunter107, Helmacon, Baffler
'Archer' Pattern G: (2) NAV, Happerry
"Reachr" Ship Destroyer: (0)
UF-ALR-40 'SHARUKH:(2) Strongpoint, RAM
UF-ABR-40 "Shower Curtain":(1) VoidSlayer
SHMG-40 "War Horse" :(7) Mulisa, Madman198237, Piratejoe, evictedSaint, GUNINANRUNIN, Stabby
UF-AC-40: (0)
Infantry QoL: (6) NUKE9.13, Azzuro, Andrea, Kashyyk, Powder Miner, Taricus

PPEdit: Omg stop posting!
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 04:16:26 am by Kashyyk »
Logged

piratejoe

  • Bay Watcher
  • Obscure References and Danmaku everywhere.
    • View Profile
Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Summer 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #2284 on: May 20, 2017, 04:20:48 am »

Okay, I want to make some things clear here, take a guess where the cannalians have attacked the past 3? 4? turns, the jungle. Look, the HMG is needed because ours is old and outdated and can be much better just modernizing it. Now, think about it, this helps everywhere just like the QOL but instead of just making our solders happier and maybe a bit more effecent, this will be very very useful.
Logged
Battleships Hurl insults from behind thick walls, Destroyers beat up small children, Carriers stay back in the kitchen, and Cruisers are a bunch of tryhards who pretend to be loners.

Strongpoint

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Summer 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #2285 on: May 20, 2017, 04:33:45 am »

5kg less on aircraft\tank it is less than a fraction of% of fighter's\tank mass. I doubt that Sensei tries to simulate the game to that level of detail. Same applies to gloves and mosquito nets.

Advanced primer ignition blowback cannon and conventional heavy machine gun are the same weapon... sure.

Quote
M4 Kiger HMG: (0)
BLOODLESS EAGLE: (0)
BLOODIER EAGLE: (0)
Chum: (0)
'Archer' Pattern F: (3)Wolfhunter107, Helmacon, Baffler
'Archer' Pattern G: (2) NAV, Happerry
"Reachr" Ship Destroyer: (0)
UF-ALR-40 'SHARUKH:(1) RAM
UF-ABR-40 "Shower Curtain":(1) VoidSlayer
SHMG-40 "War Horse" :(7) Mulisa, Madman198237, Piratejoe, evictedSaint, GUNINANRUNIN, Stabby, strongpoint
UF-AC-40: (0)
Infantry QoL: (6) NUKE9.13, Azzuro, Andrea, Kashyyk, Powder Miner, Taricus
Logged
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. Boom!!! Sooner or later.

Kashyyk

  • Bay Watcher
  • One letter short of a wookie
    • View Profile
Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Summer 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #2286 on: May 20, 2017, 05:01:50 am »

Advanced primer ignition blowback cannon and conventional heavy machine gun are the same weapon... sure.

The updated autocannon is not an APIB but a conventional design, to allow immediate swapping of ammo types.

Both are large caliber, automatic firearms designed to be used in emplacements or on vehicles. Both can use a variety of ammo types, and shred infantry. The only difference is the autocannon can also penetrate light armour. There is no situation where the SHMG would be better than the AC40, and the only advantage the SHMG has over the AC18 is instantaneous ammo swapping.
Logged

3_14159

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Summer 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #2287 on: May 20, 2017, 05:13:39 am »

Secodning QoL - I would've voted for the parachutes or the AC-40, too. However, the War Horse is too small of an improvement for something we're not yet using anyway. Instead,
Order: Continue production of the Stallion


Quote
M4 Kiger HMG: (0)
BLOODLESS EAGLE: (0)
BLOODIER EAGLE: (0)
Chum: (0)
'Archer' Pattern F: (3)Wolfhunter107, Helmacon, Baffler
'Archer' Pattern G: (2) NAV, Happerry
"Reachr" Ship Destroyer: (0)
UF-ALR-40 'SHARUKH:(1) RAM
UF-ABR-40 "Shower Curtain":(1) VoidSlayer
SHMG-40 "War Horse" :(7) Mulisa, Madman198237, Piratejoe, evictedSaint, GUNINANRUNIN, Stabby, strongpoint
UF-AC-40: (0)
Infantry QoL: (7) NUKE9.13, Azzuro, Andrea, Kashyyk, Powder Miner, Taricus, 3_14159

Order:
Continue production of the Stallion: (1) 3_14159
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 05:15:14 am by 3_14159 »
Logged

RAM

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Summer 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #2288 on: May 20, 2017, 05:20:40 am »

5kg less on aircraft\tank it is less than a fraction of% of fighter's\tank mass. I doubt that Sensei tries to simulate the game to that level of detail. Same applies to gloves and mosquito nets.

Advanced primer ignition blowback cannon and conventional heavy machine gun are the same weapon... sure.
A wieght reduction should add something, more ammunition is a sensible outlet. It could also produce stronger wings if they are wing-mounted or better control if you make the nose lighter. Aeroplanes are not just about total mass, but also balance. More to the point, 5 kilograms is an eighth of 40 kilograms, that is significant. If 5 kilograms is completely irrelevant than 40 is not much different. There are reasons why we don't slap on 8 twenty-millimetre autocannons on the nose and the same on each wing with every design. We are not designing luxury passenger planes for the obscenely wealthy who care more about comfort than speed. We are designing state-of-the-art combat jets for desperate contests in the open skies. Every gram matters. And every gram counts doubly if it can't be put in the centre without shooting the pilot.

Model 1940 Zootsuit:
We update the Yellowjacket to use the latest V12 and propellor, remove the machine guns, 50% autocannon ammo, add some structural bracing, get all the weight into the centre-line and throw the thing into a wind-tunnel for a month to tweak it until it is more agile than anything that we have ever seen before, then do everything else that we can think of...

Quote
M4 Kiger HMG: (0)
BLOODLESS EAGLE: (0)
BLOODIER EAGLE: (0)
Chum: (0)
'Archer' Pattern F: (3)Wolfhunter107, Helmacon, Baffler
'Archer' Pattern G: (2) NAV, Happerry
"Reachr" Ship Destroyer: (0)
UF-ALR-40 'SHARUKH:()
UF-ABR-40 "Shower Curtain":(1) VoidSlayer
SHMG-40 "War Horse" :(7) Mulisa, Madman198237, Piratejoe, evictedSaint, GUNINANRUNIN, Stabby, strongpoint
UF-AC-40: (0)
Infantry QoL: (8) NUKE9.13, Azzuro, Andrea, Kashyyk, Powder Miner, Taricus, 3_14159, RAM

Order:
Continue production of the Stallion: (1) 3_14159
Logged
Vote (1) for the Urist scale!
I shall be eternally happy. I shall be able to construct elf hunting giant mecha. Which can pour magma.
Urist has been forced to use a friend as fertilizer lately.
Read the First Post!

NUKE9.13

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Summer 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #2289 on: May 20, 2017, 06:42:08 am »

I doubt that Sensei tries to simulate the game to that level of detail. Same applies to gloves and mosquito nets.
Well, yes, obviously. But the individual items are just examples of the sort of thing that go into the whole. Sure, by themselves, they will have almost no impact. But all together, they will make an appreciable difference. We're not asking Sensei to calculate the 0.5% morale penalty caused by mosquito bites, we're asking him to abstract all those little things together into a 10-20% boost to our infantry's effectiveness.

Okay, I want to make some things clear here, take a guess where the cannalians have attacked the past 3? 4? turns, the jungle. Look, the HMG is needed because ours is old and outdated and can be much better just modernizing it. Now, think about it, this helps everywhere just like the QOL but instead of just making our solders happier and maybe a bit more effecent, this will be very very useful.
Did you not read the quote above about HMGs not being especially useful for infantry in the jungle, due to being too heavy to move around conveniently, and too easy to outflank in stationary positions?
This is it, in case you missed it. Note the bolded part:
Quote
Besides vehicle-mounted weapons, the heavy weapons companies in a World War II U.S. Army infantry battalion or regiment were each issued one M2 Browning with tripod (ground) mount. Mounted on a heavily sandbagged tripod, the M2HB proved very useful in either a defensive role or to interdict or block road intersections from use by German infantry and motorized forces. Hearing the sound of an M2 could often cause enemy infantry to take cover. There are numerous instances of the M2 Browning being used against enemy personnel, particularly infantry assaults or for interdiction or elimination of enemy artillery observers or snipers at distances too great for ordinary infantry weapons.

The M2HB was not widely used in the Pacific campaign for several reasons, including the weight of the gun, the nature of infantry jungle combat, and because road intersections were usually easily outflanked. However, it was used by fast-moving motorized forces in the Philippines to destroy Japanese blocking units on the advance to Manila. The quad mount .50 was also used to destroy Japanese emplacements.
In other words, it would be useful on vehicles, but vehicles are not the most important thing in the jungle.
Logged
Long Live United Forenia!

Madman198237

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Summer 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #2290 on: May 20, 2017, 07:14:22 am »

The War Horse HMG/Super-HMG will be an invaluable asset for defense. The firerate is better than any autocannon, even though it's still slow. The M2 Browning wasn't exactly doing Hitler's Buzzsaw with 1000+ RPM, after all. It was relatively slow-firing. But when the enemy realizes that your average full-grown tree doesn't provide any cover, infantry assaults are going to go to a standstill. Plus, it will give us additional guns on the line----it supplements the autocannons, not replaces them. It is meant to be mobile, portable in, say, three-man teams (Two guys lugging the gun and some ammo, one with the tripod and a lot of ammo), or two-man with the cart.
http://14544-presscdn-0-64.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/maxim_crews.jpg

That image is about what I'm thinking of. It's probably slightly upscaled from that, but with a bit of modification that cart, can carry ammo as well. IRL, the cart can be moved and used by a 2-man team and carries a .50 cal Russian HMG.

We're not automatically adding the things onto aircraft. Unless it adds no difficulty. But think about it: This is going to be, at most, Normal difficulty. It's a gun, been in production for decades, that we understand. Not to mention, it's hideously outdated and doesn't use modern advancements, making it easy for a modern engineer to say "Oh wow, we can just do this and this like our LMG/MMGs and this like the autocannons and BOOM, it's better". We have a lot of engineering basis for keeping weights down (On the autocannon, I believe) and also for higher firerates (Sorraia) and all of that fun stuff. Anything else is tempting fate with the difficulty.
Logged
We shall make the highest quality of quality quantities of soldiers with quantities of quality.

NAV

  • Bay Watcher
  • I have an idea!
    • View Profile
Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Summer 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #2291 on: May 20, 2017, 08:01:26 am »

Quote
M4 Kiger HMG: (0)
BLOODLESS EAGLE: (0)
BLOODIER EAGLE: (0)
Chum: (0)
'Archer' Pattern F: (3)Wolfhunter107, Helmacon, Baffler
'Archer' Pattern G: (1) Happerry
"Reachr" Ship Destroyer: (0)
UF-ALR-40 'SHARUKH:()
UF-ABR-40 "Shower Curtain":(1) VoidSlayer
SHMG-40 "War Horse" :(7) Mulisa, Madman198237, Piratejoe, evictedSaint, GUNINANRUNIN, Stabby, strongpoint
UF-AC-40: (0)
Infantry QoL: (9) NUKE9.13, Azzuro, Andrea, Kashyyk, Powder Miner, Taricus, 3_14159, RAM, NAV

Order:
Continue production of the Stallion: (2) 3_14159, NAV
Logged
Highmax…dead, flesh torn from him, though his skill with the sword was unmatched…military…Nearly destroyed .. Rhunorah... dead... Mastahcheese returns...dead. Gaul...alive, still locked in combat. NAV...Alive, drinking booze....
The face on the toaster does not look like one of mercy.

Madman198237

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Summer 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #2292 on: May 20, 2017, 08:05:48 am »

Infantry QoL is likely going to be too big for a revision. Look at the list: How extensive is it? How much of it do we have a basis for? Also, is it worth it? And I'd say, heck no. Not the one linked in the vote box. Where's the extended list?

At the very least (It won't change my vote, but if it's going to happen at least change it), have it update the uniforms away from the twenty-year-old Arstotzkan ones. Perhaps a splash of modern camouflage theory, a bit of metal covering critical areas, that sort of thing.
Logged
We shall make the highest quality of quality quantities of soldiers with quantities of quality.

NAV

  • Bay Watcher
  • I have an idea!
    • View Profile
Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Summer 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #2293 on: May 20, 2017, 08:13:17 am »

Here is the full QOL list. I divided it into two sections: uniform and equipment.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 08:15:45 am by NAV »
Logged
Highmax…dead, flesh torn from him, though his skill with the sword was unmatched…military…Nearly destroyed .. Rhunorah... dead... Mastahcheese returns...dead. Gaul...alive, still locked in combat. NAV...Alive, drinking booze....
The face on the toaster does not look like one of mercy.

Madman198237

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Summer 1940 (Revision Phase)
« Reply #2294 on: May 20, 2017, 08:15:03 am »

Then link THAT, please. The other one is shortened and wasteful of a revision.
Logged
We shall make the highest quality of quality quantities of soldiers with quantities of quality.
Pages: 1 ... 151 152 [153] 154 155 ... 500