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Glorious Arstotzka

17 (16%)

Glorious Moskurg

13 (12.3%)

Ingloriously Didn't Play

76 (71.7%)

Total Members Voted: 106

[Powder Miner]

'Wasp Nest': (8) GUNINANRUNIN, Khan Boyzitbig,evictedSaint, Madman198237, Helmacon, Andrea, Kashyyk, Happerry
'Cavalier': (2) Baffler, Powder Miner

[Taricus]

Alright, after getting word from Sensei that DOWNSIZING guns isn't a problem, I present to you the... DEMOLISHER

UFS-ART-38 'B3 Demolisher'
Description: Effectively a massive artillery gun, the massive 300mm shell this thing fires rips through Cannalans like alcohol abstinence. The 300mm gun does take cues from the Cannaln guns, with hydraulic ramming, but the biggest introduction is the use off a wellin screw breach to make reloading that much easier. While planned for coastal emplacements, the guns could be readily fit onto a larger vessel, and the design simple enough for downsizing to be effortless.

'Wasp Nest': ( GUNINANRUNIN, Khan Boyzitbig,evictedSaint, Madman198237, Helmacon, Andrea, Kashyyk, Happerry
'Cavalier': (3) Baffler, Powder Miner, Taricus
'B3 Demolisher': (0)

[Parsely]

But what you're saying isn't actually based on any evidence within the turns -- in fact, you're being contradicted by the actual series of events. Our air superiority was plainly stated to be a major factor in our recent naval performance.

I still think it's important to know if the planes are destroying ships that are raiding our commerce in the deep sea or if they're just destroying vessels that are near the coast trying to support ground battles.

What you can't deny though is that planes that are ready to take off right there in a destroyer group or in a convoy with merchants would be way more effective than planes sitting in an airfield in Forenia or the Desert. Decreasing response time would make our already effective planes even more effective, no?

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Here's a competing Carrier, because we need to have some form of discussion so we can come up with the best carrier.

Aircraft Carrier UFS-CV-38 Pattern B 'Hornet Nest' 38
Description: Forenia's first Aircraft Carrier.  A light flat-top ship based heavily off our existing AS-CV22 and AS-ARAC-35; main differences include a greater overall length and a flat wooden deck for aircraft take-off and landing.  The deck is slightly elevated off the edges of the ship and utilizes one hydraulic lift for ferrying aircraft from below deck to above deck.  Due to the time it takes to lift aircraft from below deck combat-ready planes crowd the rear of the deck when expecting combat situations.  Makes use of several "Arresting Cables" which require aircraft to be modified with tail-hooks.  Command center is at the bow of the ship, off to one side of the runway.  Unarmored deck, open-air hanger deck to reduce cost and load. 
    Dimensions: 180 meters long, 26 meter beam, 7 meter draught.
    Displacement: 14,680 tons
    Engines: 8 water-tube boilers feeding 4 steam turbines, geared.
    Armament: 24 aircraft (Fighters or Dive Bombers armed with either Dolphins or Firecrackers).  4 Bumblebee AA nests at each corner of the deck and 8 AS-AC18 spread evenly along the edge of the deck (two on the side of the conning tower and six upon the opposing side.
    Armour: Medium around the belt for torpedo survivability.  Very Light elsewhere.
    Other stuff: Both Encryption and Decryption radios for communication.

[Powder Miner]

GUNIN: The naval battles have been in terms of pure naval combat when air superiority is brough into it, there hasn't been any sort of qualification restricting it to coastal battles whatsoever, so you would be assuming one into existence, especially because we have fuel tanks for our 32s with no extra cost right now. Again, there are no evidenced deployment problems.

Additionally, while it would provide quicker response time, it would not be providing an advantage we need, like sinking their Khornes. It is our biggest naval weakness. You would be improving upon something we already have without providing any sort of defense if it gets challenged and without providing for our biggest weakness.

[Baffler]

But what you're saying isn't actually based on any evidence within the turns -- in fact, you're being contradicted by the actual series of events. Our air superiority was plainly stated to be a major factor in our recent naval performance.

I still think it's important to know if the planes are destroying ships that are raiding our commerce in the deep sea or if they're just destroying vessels that are near the coast trying to support ground battles.

What you can't deny though is that planes that are ready to take off right there in a destroyer group or in a convoy with merchants would be way more effective than planes sitting in an airfield in Forenia or the Desert. Decreasing response time would make our already effective planes even more effective, no?

A carrier is going to be Very Expensive in the best case. We're not going to have any to spare for something like protecting against convoy raiding, if we even have more than one they'll all have to be committed to fleet actions because that's what you do with carriers and that's where they'll do the most good. Fleet actions they'll lose, because the enemy has AA cruisers that we can't counter and warships that can make mincemeat of the Archers that would screen them. We need this intermediate step.

[Taricus]

Yeah, the AA cruisers need to be put down effectively before out air cover can really get to them. That or cheaper light bombers so we can overwhelm them.

[Azzuro]

'Wasp Nest': (9) GUNINANRUNIN, Khan Boyzitbig,evictedSaint, Madman198237, Helmacon, Andrea, Kashyyk, Happerry, Azzuro
'Cavalier': (3) Baffler, Powder Miner, Taricus
'B3 Demolisher': (0)
'Hornet Nest': (0)

Voting for Carriers. Sorry Zanzutkuken but I think the Hornet's Nest design has too little AA.

[evictedSaint]

Here's a competing Carrier, because we need to have some form of discussion so we can come up with the best carrier.

Aircraft Carrier UFS-CV-38 Pattern B 'Hornet Nest' 38

I see this as a more expensive version of Pattern A, and since the goal is a Very Expensive ship it might not be the best choice.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Voting for Carriers. Sorry Zanzutkuken but I think the Hornet's Nest design has too little AA.

Don't forget they'll be supported by our Destroyers, which have AA of their own.  If the carriers are off on their own and deprived of the fire those will provide, that means someone fucked up.

[Madman198237]

Aircraft Carrier: UFS-CV-38c "Razor's Edge"
Description: Forenia's first Aircraft Carrier.  A light flattop based heavily off our existing AS-CV22 and AS-ARAC-35; main differences include a greater overall length and a flat deck for aircraft take-off and landing.  The deck is slightly elevated off the front edge of the ship and utilizes one hydraulic lift for ferrying aircraft from below deck to above deck.  Due to the time it takes to lift aircraft from below deck combat-ready planes crowd the rear of the deck when expecting combat situations. Can be fitted with arrester cables if necessary.
          Dimensions: 180 meters long, 22 meter beam, 7 meter draught.
          Displacement: 14,000 tons
          Propulsion: 8 water-tube boilers feeding 4 steam turbines, geared.
          Armament: Slightly underneath the flight deck, around the edge of the ship, there are 18 AA positions. 12 hold machineguns and rapid-firing light cannon in single, dual, even quadruple mountings, 6 hold Bumblebee AA guns.
          Complement: (Suggested, commanders decide based on mission profile) Carries a squadron of HF-32s, half a squad of dive bombers, and half a squad of torpedo bombers. (24 aircraft)
          Armor: Light torpedo and very light light bomb protection, bomb protection is built into the flight deck. Torpedo protection also functions as ballast to keep ship seaworthy.
          Extras: Full radio suite, the and command-and-control setup and air boss's work-space are unparalleled in efficiency. Both located inside the very light-armored conning tower, which improves radio and visual range with its elevated position and lengthy antennae.

This ship is built to be a relatively fast light carrier, carrying a potent striking force yet capable of running away instead of getting sunk.

'Wasp Nest': (8 ) GUNINANRUNIN, Khan Boyzitbig,evictedSaint, Helmacon, Andrea, Kashyyk, Happerry, Azzuro
'Cavalier': (3) Baffler, Powder Miner, Taricus
'B3 Demolisher': (0)
'Hornet Nest': (0)
Razor's Edge (Carrier, CV-38c): (1) Madman198237

[Baffler]

Voting for Carriers. Sorry Zanzutkuken but I think the Hornet's Nest design has too little AA.

Don't forget they'll be supported by our Destroyers, which have AA of their own.  If the carriers are off on their own and deprived of the fire those will provide, that means someone fucked up.

Our destroyers don't last 10 minutes in an actual fight though, and are too undergunned to even reliably disable enemy vessels. We can fix the second problem with a revision, but speed seems to do very little for their survivability.

[evictedSaint]

Aircraft Carrier: UFS-CV-38c "Wasp's Nest"

-snip-

The armored deck will hurt us, as it will add top-heavy weight that won't do much to keep it alive.  The large compliment of fighters won't help at naval engagements, as they won't have carriers and will likely rely solely on battleships and cruisers. The conning tower runs the risk of making the ship less aerodynamic, which was a problem with early CV conning towers.

I say we have a suggested compliment of planes and let the commanders decide what would be the most appropriate loadout.

[Madman198237]

It's very light bomb protection. Also works on plunging fire at long range. I forgot to specify that that was a suggested loadout, because it was. If that carrier ever ventures NEAR hostile land, it'll likely end up getting attacked, hence the fighters, which are also capable of carrying bomb payloads.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

'Wasp Nest': (8 ) GUNINANRUNIN, Khan Boyzitbig,evictedSaint, Helmacon, Andrea, Kashyyk, Happerry, Azzuro
'Cavalier': (4) Baffler, Powder Miner, Taricus, Zanzetkuken
'B3 Demolisher': (0)
'Hornet Nest': (0)
Razor's Edge (Carrier, CV-38c): (1) Madman198237