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[hector13]

Readin' through the thread again, post up in a bit.

[hector13]

I guess I'll go in reverse order then.

TBF

TheBiggerFish
Which players would you estimate as having a better than 90% chance of being town, as of right now?

Myself, but I'm practically obligated to say that whether or not it's true.
Maybe Gentlefish.
Mathematically, none of us at all.  That's only a 75% chance not including myself.
Maybe Wuba.

Tremendous non-answer. Why are you relying on maths instead of post-analysis? What are your thoughts regarding the content generated so far?

Also, one would expect you to be disinclined to call webadict town after he's been on your rear all day. Please explain the reasoning behind this.

If I had to pick one, Johiah.

Activelurking, actual lurking, refusing to play, bandwagoning, refusing to share reads...

All these are things you have indulged in, even moreso than Johiah. Considering things from my perspective, give me a few reasons why I should not vote for you.


You've been throwing an amount of shade at roo for a great deal of the day. Could you tell me how roo's play in their previous games correlates with their alignment in this one?

Why are you still throwing shade in roo's direction while voting for someone else?

doll

4maskwolf
As you can see, I am rolefishing.
What's your role this game?

4maskwolf... may be scum.

I've got him written down as "probably scum" in my private notes. He's my top scumpick.

---

Hector13

Harumph.

Hector13
4maskwolf is scum, right?

Sure, I guess.

His play thus far I guess has been fairly typical of the 4mask I've played with - all of three times I think. Optimum answers to RVS questions, being a bit smarmy if someone throws them shade 'cause he knows they don't have anything to go on yet, pushing a bit on weaker players for some easy towncred.

Someone could definitely spin that to make him look scummy.


Not a great post to start, much sadness is had.

Hopefully I will be able to post again in a few hours, I had forgotten how much of doll's stuff I had glossed over while I was just spectating...

[hector13]

First Post: Part deux

Gentlefish

Is there something more you wanted from me? I'm more than willing to answer questions, seeing as back-and-forth can only help town succeed.

This sits uneasily with me. What was your back to doll's forth? Your desire for more questions makes you look proactive, but all I saw in the rest of this post was reaction.

Johiah: Somehow my vote was missed in the count.

@Hapah
May I ask why you are voting me?

We're voting you because you're inactive. Be active and we may shift our vote.

That coupled with a kinda lazy pressure vote, it leads me to read the following quite negatively:

As for whom I'd kill if I were mafia, I'd probably pick off Doll if they weren't. They're actually fighting the good fight which makes for strong town and really scary scum because they're always pushing the initiative and forcing everyone else to react. Failing that, if TBF survived the day somehow, killing him might cast doubt on everyone who voted him, so he'd be a good kill too.

I've never seen anyone answer that question with the proviso "if so-and-so wasn't my scum partner..." so that was interesting. Plus a stunning review of their play, too.

You also seem convinced (at that point) TBF is going to be lynched, but that he must be town, else no doubt would be cast on those that voted him...


More later.

roo is town, doll probably isn't. Not sure about others yet, more reading needs done.

Hell, I thought I had more time than this

[TheDarkStar]

After some more deliberation, you decide you need some more deliberation. Oh, and apparently some nation got replaced by another nation.


Hapah:
doll:
johiah(4): TheBiggerFish, Hapah, Gentlefish, webadict
Gentlefish(1): hector13
Doubloon-Seven hector13(1): doll
TheBiggerFish(2): 4maskwolf, johiah
roo:
4maskwolf:
webadict(1): roo

Not voting:


Day 1 ends Thursday, May 4th at roughly 2pm forum time (about 19.5 hours from now). The day was extended 24 hours as a result of hector13 replacing Doubloon-Seven.

[johiah]

Anyways, I guess a little bit about my thought process:
SO far, no one is an obvious choice for likely scum. TBF was being obnoxious and not really contributing and i figured hey, if he's mafia, lynching him will help us get one step closer to not nuking ourselves. If he isn't then the game will be slightly more peaceful.

If I had to make a guess of who is Mafia, right now I would probably have to guess Gentlefish, Doll, or webadict. Mainly because of the way Gentlefish is acting, and the fact that Doll and Webadict seem to be more skilled and so I perceive them as more of a threat (of a help) to the town.

This was where I made a (crappy) list. Turns out I got the part about Doll being mafia possibly right. Yay.
Sweet, looks like I will be lynched, which is good, because I will be gone on the weekend. Something I didn't originally know about.

[johiah]

Honestly at this point I want to get lynched, even though I'm not mafia, because this kind of thing just isn't fun for me. When we play mafia around the campfire it is more laid back, not constant analysis and the demand that you must speak every 2 seconds or you are mafia.
It seemed to me that hanging back would actually make me more likely to survive and win because the Mafia would see me as less of a threat. Oh well.
Can I suicide so they don't waste their votes?

[johiah]

Also, vote Doll.
Voting TBF is a waste of time as he has calmed down somewhat and definitely won't be lynched this turn.
Web and several others believe Doll is the most likely person to be Mafia currently.
Thus, I am changing my vote to Doll.

[TheBiggerFish]

...Do you actually believe that doll is Mafia?

Honestly at this point I want to get lynched, even though I'm not mafia, because this kind of thing just isn't fun for me. When we play mafia around the campfire it is more laid back, not constant analysis and the demand that you must speak every 2 seconds or you are mafia.
It seemed to me that hanging back would actually make me more likely to survive and win because the Mafia would see me as less of a threat. Oh well.
Can I suicide so they don't waste their votes?

....Well there's your problem, because campfire Mafia this is not.

Lurking making Mafia not notice you?  Maybe, but how are you going to notice them with no content?

Suiciding?  No.  I would suggest requesting a replacement if you're not having fun though.

[Hapah]

Yeah, if you're not having fun then ask for a replacement. Games are meant to be enjoyed, after all!

I've had a rather large change IRL today and don't know that I'll get a post out this evening, though I bet I can manage one in the morning.

[Tiruin]

....Well there's your problem, because campfire Mafia this is not.

Please do not present it like that, TBF. You do not shove 'this/there is your problem' onto others. It gives a very bitter taste to the receiver, and in some observers' eyes, and sounds bad in general. It's assuming his intent of thinking and reasoning.

This isn't 'not campfire Mafia'. It is also a casually played game, but dependent on the players too in making the game. Sorry for popping in, but this is my IC voice right here. When a game is being made into a rigid set of play--it isn't 'the game defining itself'.

It is the players defining it and expecting others to play by their definition.

@Johiah: I'm sad to see you feel that way (Mafia on this board is a ton better, really), but you can type in "replacement" (which is bolded for visibility) like 'request replacement please' or otherwise. If you can, keep playing instead! There are often times where newbies feel cornered or nervous (I was too back in the day; cold sweat and feeling persecuted). What can help is exposure and experience--to offset impressions. I will link the game in question where I messed up waaaay back in the day. Even while in play, good advice can be had while playing. I'm linking Jim Groovester--you can be stern, and rough, but still have a good time by how you speak, even with a sincere nudge of advice (which is always viewed neutral in terms of scumhunting/day play/alignment checking) like what Jim did consoles hurting souls.

Player retention is a ton better than one's feeling of how valid their statements are at the moment, because situational applicability is the most important skill one must have in Mafia--especially in textual and non-verbal mediums. This is one major factor in how fun is translated in this medium: How people can cope with stress or the inevitable 'lack of instantaneous communication'.

Wishing y'all well here. I'll return to scumchat and paste nice things for TDS.

[roo]

lol, that's a fancy word for such a simple question! No, I don't think we're working together to "nefarious results". I know I'm town and don't know about wuba, but I'd take any similarities in the way people talk in stride unless they were REALLY blatant.

Round 2?

Initially my gut told me it was significant that hapah mentioned doll after webadict declared doll mafia. I consider this angle the most: hapah just started a game in several years I was thinking if hapah is mafia he would not take that risk of buddying his scum partner so early on. Hapah and webadict can't be scum together methinks. But how do I find which one is town if one of them refuses to play on the other hand we could just lynch them both haha. Also idk if it is hapahs original thoughts fosing doll or looking for something to cast shade on doll. Independently I don't see how what hapah quoted could be suspicious. I'm stuck at hapah play it doesn't feel town motivated...well neither do the ics of this game. Like hapah is unsure what to do but wants to do something it throws me back to what I talked about in his opening post. His compliment toward me feels odd and now the psuedo? Hive mind with webadict, but all web did was say doll was mafia then tbf asked him why and the guy who wanted to teach more shut down again. I'm not impressed with hapah play it's a far cry from webadicts who refuses to play because tbf isn't dead, but surely it is even with 4mask who has mostly made vacuous posts. Why does no one wanna be the hero this town doesn't deserve? In the end it looks like this game is a repeat of every game I played so far: get indoctrinated into the bay12 playstyle or die, Lynch inactive player, scum kill active player. Well it's not like we can do much else except try to get rid of dead weight. Bleh reading that last line tastes so bad in my mouth. Idk maybe it's me that is causing webadict to just be stubborn and shut down. I'm Hmmmmmm.

Well anyways what has happened? Web and doll both call tbf town. I'm willing to bet tbf is also probably town. Johiah also felt pretty genuine in his most recent post. I'm town. Doll is most likely town. I'm fine lynching anyone outside of those people. Also all gentlefish has done iirc is ask why people think stuff and not proffered an original thought. Well that's the impression I have in my mind of gentlefish at least.

hapah

[hector13]

...Do you actually believe that doll is Mafia?

Honestly at this point I want to get lynched, even though I'm not mafia, because this kind of thing just isn't fun for me. When we play mafia around the campfire it is more laid back, not constant analysis and the demand that you must speak every 2 seconds or you are mafia.
It seemed to me that hanging back would actually make me more likely to survive and win because the Mafia would see me as less of a threat. Oh well.
Can I suicide so they don't waste their votes?

....Well there's your problem, because campfire Mafia this is not.

Lurking making Mafia not notice you?  Maybe, but how are you going to notice them with no content?

Suiciding?  No.  I would suggest requesting a replacement if you're not having fun though.

Are you going to answer my questions, or just interact with players you think are weaker than you?

[doll]

TheDarkStar
Don't forget that I'm voting to extend the day.
Fun fact:
4maskwolf hasn't done anything since his first post during RVS other than answer questions and harp on TBF (his lynch) for being anti-town.

Spoiler: Day 1 scumhunting based Reads List (click to show/hide)

*doll
*roo
+TheBiggerFish
+hector13
-Webadict
-Gentlefish
`johiah
_Hapah
_4maskwolf

* (soft) clear
+ town
- not (not) town
` anti-town (inactive)
_ scum(my)

Regardless of whichever of them is mafia, Webadict is going to bully the shit out of 4maskwolf for looking like lurking scum. 4maskwolf is going to deserve it. This might take until Day 3. All it takes to lynch 4maskwolf at this point is motivation. 4maskwolf thrives on making a strong counter-case, and that's the thing he can't do under pressure without confirming his scum meta.

As it stands, Hapah tastes like Tiruin's scum - he continually defers posting until the morrow, as it were, and more or less just spends that time defending himself from whatever developments in the thread involve him and then delaying until further and further yet. The more he does this, the easier it is to put a huge amount of pressure on him when I call this habit in to bank.
That will happen Day 2. If I am not alive, roo and hector will do it for me.

Johiah will replace out, or get lynched.

Gentlefish has not done a lot, but he has not not done a lot. He hasn't achieved very much, but it is difficult to say whether or not he has really tried. In particular, he hasn't claimed a meta restriction on his activity and has remained active elsewhere, so he is de-facto respondent to pressure and ready to take some shit. In order to not look scummy, Gentlefish should convince my faction of the town to vote someone else. Trying to do so without a proper case on the new target should cause the pressure to redouble and the lynch to go through. A proper case constitutes hunting as well as analysis.

Webadict doesn't get a read because he isn't very active. Despite that, he has managed to effectively take control of the town. In particular, he brought TBF more or less back from the dead. Despite being in a phenomenal position to influence the town, he's far from a high profile target for the scumkill and has done an excellent job at contributing in a non-threatening manner. Unfortunately for him, I'm going to go ahead and say that analysis by first principles suggests that this means he's a power role.

hector13 hasn't got enough activity yet to give real analysis on. His play is fundamentally authentic and very on point for town, though.
It's important to note that hector13 is a very sophisticated player, so his activity should be treated with the same broad-mindedness that you should be bringing when trying to read the ICs.

TheBiggerFish is playing how TheBiggerFish would play if he was town. This isn't really very different from how he would play as scum. His town read on Wuba is actually the biggest indicator, in my view, of his town-ness. He transitioned into hunting scum and has done more scum hunting than most players in the thread, because most players haven't done any work.

Roo has done a absolutely fantastic amount of work in looking for scum. roo's questions make sense and are believable. roo is town.

roo
I would appreciate it if you could change your vote to Gentlefish.
There are three reasons for this:
While you're right that Hapah is more likely to be scum, I don't think that you'll get anything out of him today, whereas it should be relatively easy to double down on Hapah D2 and so eliminate most of the doubt that he might actually be town.
Gentlefish could easily be one of the strongest town players if he did some bona fide scumhunting work, and he seems more likely to be susceptible to the pressure of an incomplete vote.
We can spook the fuck out of Webadict if we challenge TBF's johiah lynch and leave the vote so open to switching.
PPE:
I'm going to review TBF's P25 (scum) play so it's easier for me to flip-flop on him with my partner.

[Hapah]

PFW

Doll, I can vote for an extend if there's a particular answer you're after, but it looks like activity has tapered off (which isn't that unusual around end of D1 if memory serves). I also hate it when folks extend the game but don't make use of the extension. Is there something particular you're looking for?

[roo]

gentlefish