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[Gentlefish]

Choo choo post incoming.

[Gentlefish]

Gentlefish
There isn't a hammer system. Vote somebody. Address my question.

Gentelfish
It's Day1. I claim Jailkeeper out of the blue. You are the Jailkeeper. Do you say anything?

Day 1 claim? Hell naw I don't say anything. I don't claim, at least. If we don't lynch you for a D1 claim, I'd jailkeep you for as long as you're alive and until second scum is found. Then I claim. If I cannot get them to lynch you, and I get lynched, hopefully there's enough people to survive the night if that happens because I wouldn't be able to keep you. And if I end up dead before that they'll know to lynch you when I come up as 'keep if they don't lynch you day one.

Because claiming roles D1 is for jackasses.

Gentlefish is suspicious. I'm not making a big case out of him because he has yet to respond, and the longer that goes on the harder it'll be for him to reverse any bandwagon I set moving in his path.
Note here that I've stated my intent in positioning the town. I am, as it were, being honestly less than honest, even though I am voting for the target of my suspicion. But I don't seem to want you to vote him yet, because I want him to make it easier for me to get you to vote him. Since he has an out for this (doing what I want and going for something, answering my questions), it also makes it easier for him to avoid the lynch if I can get him to do what I want, which is to give me an opportunity to read him (and so decide if I want to push for the lynch after that or not).

Bruh, it was the weekend. I was around on the forums but I just came out of the busiest school week of the semester for me, of course I didn't want to sit down and tip-tap out these long-ass posts when my brain is broken. I'm here now though so let's get into it.

You talked about about there not being "a hammer system". I actually had to google that, thank you. It's RVS and we have until wednesday for our votes. If it makes you happy I'll leave my vote on someone, but right now I'm using it as a tool to get people to talk. People don't like votes on them even if they aren't getting lynched because it means someone doesn't believe them or thinks they're a hindrance. And here you're saying you don't want people to vote, but only on a specific person? The person who I've personally voted for, before you, after having built a case, you don't want people to vote for. Okay.

Why are you trying to lead a personal charge against TBF? Why did you say you don't want others to vote him? Miss me with that "seem" noise, you straight up justified it right after that.

I really did not expect Mafia to be this involved.
Will think of questions.

Johiah: Mafia is pretty involved, yeah. It's a lot of post analysis and trying to find out where people are really trying to do behind it all. It's pretty rough stuff!

Now, that said, how come you aren't posting? They don't have to be especially large like Doll's or mine, but smaller ones where you answer one question at a time and come back with a response is plenty enough in a BM game like this. It gives us something to work with, other than nothing. It can only help you look better.

[johiah]

how come you aren't posting?

I have school during the day. And I'm lazy. And I play other games and don't have a massive amount of time on the computer each day.


Anyways, I guess a little bit about my thought process:
SO far, no one is an obvious choice for likely scum. TBF was being obnoxious and not really contributing and i figured hey, if he's mafia, lynching him will help us get one step closer to not nuking ourselves. If he isn't then the game will be slightly more peaceful.

If I had to make a guess of who is Mafia, right now I would probably have to guess Gentlefish, Doll, or webadict. Mainly because of the way Gentlefish is acting, and the fact that Doll and Webadict seem to be more skilled and so I perceive them as more of a threat (of a help) to the town.

[roo]

It was a suggestion to give your argument more weight. Quoting portions of a post helps focus the attention to where it matters.

I don't believe to be the only lynch option. I believe him to be the BEST lynch option. Like, the only better option is scum.

Of course I'm gonna double down on TBF. I have played several games with him. I don't even believe he's scum. He probably isn't. But the problem is that even as town, he actively hurts the chances to win, which means that I want him to shape up or ship out.

It's not about ignoring you. It's just that you're wrong. You don't truly understand my dislike of TBF until you've seen him ruin a game he had the ability to save.

I think your vote is dumb, but I also know I'm Town, and I understand exactly why i do things. I can post multiple games ruined by TBF. I want him to learn or die.

I don't really care about johaiah or doubloon. They haven't done anything worth noticing.

@4mask: touchy... geez. Do you want like 5 minutes to cry about it privately before you post instead?

I have a lot to say to this. Frankly I dislike writing walls and prefer only a paragraph or two. I'll simply ask what are your reads if any and why. The TBF circle jerk has come far enough imo and me continuing to approach the subject just gives you what you want.

[Gentlefish]

I have a lot to say to this. Frankly I dislike writing walls and prefer only a paragraph or two. I'll simply ask what are your reads if any and why. The TBF circle jerk has come far enough imo and me continuing to approach the subject just gives you what you want.

For what I'm understanding, roo, it's not that webadict thinks TBF is mafia. It's that he thinks TBF's playstyle is anti-town. I feel like that much was obvious in the post you quoted.

Are you voting webadict simply because he's also voting TBF or do you have more substance behind your voting decision?

[roo]

I have a lot to say to this. Frankly I dislike writing walls and prefer only a paragraph or two. I'll simply ask what are your reads if any and why. The TBF circle jerk has come far enough imo and me continuing to approach the subject just gives you what you want.

For what I'm understanding, roo, it's not that webadict thinks TBF is mafia. It's that he thinks TBF's playstyle is anti-town. I feel like that much was obvious in the post you quoted.

Are you voting webadict simply because he's also voting TBF or do you have more substance behind your voting decision?

reason at the end of post

No. He has been after tbf regardless of alignment as soon as webadict posted. Usually I wouldn't care. The only reason I do now is that I think webadict is scum here.

Webadict says the only better lynch option to tbf is scum. What webadict doesn't say is why he isn't questioning anyone else,  are scum not out there? Why isn't webadict trying to find scum?  Does TBFs presence alone invite such awesome magnitism that webadict must simply be on him all throughout the day? I thought webadict said this was still rvs? At what point did his "random Vote" turn into a vote for death? And why would webadict announce that he is still in rvs if his vote indicates otherwise?

Wanting to kill tbf because he is anti-town is fine. Policy lynching tbf because of past fuckershitery and masking it as the best lynch option is also fine. That does not now preclude nor excuse webadict from not giving out reads of players or commenting on the game of other players or the state of the game.

@Gentlefish: what would you as a town IC that is focused on teaching do if the game stagnated?

If you were webadict how you decide when TBF  has "shaped up" and is no longer the best lynch option? "Shaping up" had no parameters nor examples of what "shaping up" means. Effectively "shaping up" can only mean lay down and die for me in this instance.

 Also who would you kill if you were mafia?

[webadict]

@roo: That goes counter to your initial vote for me then. You never once suggested this was for any other reason than because of TBF. You originally stated that my policyvoting TBF was precisely what you found suspicious. And I answered your other question about my reads in that I literally do not care about anyone else. You want to write about how little I care about them?

That's pointless, especially since you're reaching the point where you're basically ignoring any real evidence, essentially doing the exact same thing you're accusing me of. Tunnel me harder, senpai, I learned it from you.

And just so you don't get confused, my RVS vote is ALWAYS to kill. I don't play around. If it wasn't a threat, it wouldn't be useful. Why would you be scared if the red word had a safety on? I WANT TBF dead. More than anyone else. Everyone else is useful while alive, even you, but TBF will actively destroy the Town, merely by existence.

I want you to look at TBF's play and let me know where you think he is playing up to par. Because I can wait. He will do this for the entire game. Thanks but no thanks.

But you're ingenious plan to catch me in my vicious scumplans are cute and deserve praise. God, here I go, killing all the useless Townies, because it paints a giant target on me while only making my job harder, dang how could I so foolish to get caught. Darn. If only I hadn't fallen for that trap.

[Hapah]

5 pages over the weekend; you guys are killing me! Catching up now.

[Gentlefish]

Maybe if you're 15 or 25 PPP Looking forward to your post.

[Hapah]

Alright, let's get to it! Have to go AFK for a bit but I think this will do for now.

Hapah talks to tbf after tbf mentions him and is hostile towards me, but hapah himself does not pose an rvs question to anyone and instead chooses to talk to me about past games encouraging me to post about my past games and talk about nothing. He shifts his momentum with tbf while trying to encourage me to talk. I felt that he was trying to be buddies with someone. Like I said it was just a feeling. And like I said before

"Just say what you're thinking and lay it out there; more discussion helps town."

I don't think this is an unreasonable response, especially so early into D1. It's worth noting I was shooting off a quick question while still at work; I hardly had time to write a novel.

Hapah
It's Day2. A scum player was lynched D1. A single player claims cop D2. Are they the cop? When would it be acceptable to lynch them? Do you pay any attention to their reports?

I think you almost have to believe him at that point, in a semiclosed game like this. I mean, that would be a bold going on foolish scumclaim: I looked at the role possibilities and two out of the three have an actual cop, right? If you fakeclaim cop as scum D2 and the real cop claims, one of you is gonna get lynched day 2 no question. And good luck talking your way out of that when you claimed Cop and the real one flips. I guess a vanilla townie could claim Cop, but I don't see what they could gain out of it (and it seems like an anti-town move).

@Hapah: Wait, what?

I think there's something fishy, pardon the inadvertent pun, going on - roo was, as far as I can tell, referring to the question I asked you.  As you have not yet answered, I'd prefer to not explain the rationale behind it till I get an answer.

I don't think he is. I could read it as him questioning my very quick question (and I feel that's legitimate for people that don't know me, reinforced by =http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163788.msg7437049#msg7437049this upon further questioning), or he could be questioning you. He quoted us both, after all, and it really looks like that question is pointed at you and that stick up your ass.

After reading it a couple of times, though, I can see how you two were talking past each other. You thought that roo got a buddying vibe off you asking me about past games (which explains this, sorta?), when he was actually referring to my question about roo's past games/experiences. Breaking up quote-blocks when possible to only reference the bits you are interested in can help avoid this in the future.

Changing your vote around is a towntell, if anything.

I think that's a new viewpoint for me. I know you expanded on it a bit below this and I snipped it, but could you go a little farther? Throwing a vote around isn't exactly hard.

I... don't really have any questions.

You'd better find a couple, then. Without a couple decent questions you'll be on my (and I assume a few other people's) lynch shortlist. Granted, it was the weekend and I don't expect anything from anyone over the weekend, but at least one post a day with some content is the bare minimum I would aim for.

webadict

This is one weird-ass vote. Again, assume everyone is gonna ask why you're doing anything.

TBF: Man, it's literally been 3 or 4 years since I played. There's no way I'm gonna remember individual games at this point unless they were nuts, and even then I'm only gonna remember snippets.

I remember tunneling the everloving shit out of Shake in a King of the Mafia. I remember reasoning out that Tolyk (I think it was Tolyk) was scum in one game (a BYOR I think) when he changed his claim just a bit. I remember dinging Book with a fakeclaim in my first very game, and I remember lynching myself in a Beginner's Mafia game long ago (don't do that). I remember being a Snowman in a Cybrid Mafia game, and I vaguely remember some Mafia game that was about CCGs? I think people have Yu-Gi-Oh and Magic The Gathering and all that good stuff. But if you're asking me for specific details of how I played in games long past, I can't really help you.

Mm.  Alright then.

Well, since it's been 3 or 4 years since you've last played, I guess your meta would've changed anyway.

Now, where were you going with that question? And why would me knowing the reason behind the question change I responded?

Anyway, may I ask to everyone voting TheBiggerFish, could you please give a short summary of your reasoning?

My reasoning is laid out in the same post as the vote, here.

Doubloon-Seven: You're not new to the concept of Mafia.
Why are you doing even worse than me at it?

Tell me what you hope to gain from this?

...Heck, I asked roo why he was voting for webadict before you did...

You didn't actually.
You said 'why', alone, without meaningful context. You clearly either expect us (i.e. roo) to read your mind, or don't actually have the faintest interest in learning about roo's motivation in voting Webadict.

What context was needed? Roo's post where he voted wuba was, literally, just wuba's name in red. What else would he be asking why about? More words are not always better or needed.

Generally I try to get about 8 hours of sleep, and I had a thing last night.

I'm not gonna give you grief for not posting on the weekends, but...

Johiah

I didn't really plan on asking a load of questions cus I planned on analyzing you guys based on how you reacted to each other, but here goes
@everyone who seems the most likely to be mafia so far in your opinion?

Also still not really sure who to vote for but if I need to vote I guess vote TBF since he is getting lynched anyways, whether I vote or not.

That is both a shade lazy and more than a little dangerous. And I've already spelled out what I think about lazy players.

I really did not expect Mafia to be this involved.
Will think of questions.

Good, I look forward to it! Shoot for one decent post a day as a minimum, if possible. You don't have to write a novel like my post is turning out to be (though quote-blocks make it look bigger than it really is)

General Aside: roo, I really liked this post, though I had just a little trouble following it. Folks can call this buddying if they want, but I like to let new folks know when they've done things that I like and not just crap all over everyone for the things I don't, lol.

...Hapah, you seem to be activelurking just a bit.

I try not to mix Mafia and drinks if I can help it, though I might skim the game on the weekends don't expect posts like this one. You might get answers to quick one-off types of questions on weekends but not much beyond that.

Allow me to clarify: I am still in RVS because I'm still waiting for the initial response to several RVS questions I am actually interested in the replies to.

Can/will you go into detail once you have received responses?

[TheBiggerFish]

@Hapah: I was hoping to get an idea of your town meta and scum meta, but it's been four years and you don't remember details, so your meta has probably changed.  But if you were scum, you could have fed me bad intel, as was.

[roo]

@roo: That goes counter to your initial vote for me then. You never once suggested this was for any other reason than because of TBF. You originally stated that my policyvoting TBF was precisely what you found suspicious. And I answered your other question about my reads in that I literally do not care about anyone else. You want to write about how little I care about them?

That's pointless, especially since you're reaching the point where you're basically ignoring any real evidence, essentially doing the exact same thing you're accusing me of. Tunnel me harder, senpai, I learned it from you.

And just so you don't get confused, my RVS vote is ALWAYS to kill. I don't play around. If it wasn't a threat, it wouldn't be useful. Why would you be scared if the red word had a safety on? I WANT TBF dead. More than anyone else. Everyone else is useful while alive, even you, but TBF will actively destroy the Town, merely by existence.

I want you to look at TBF's play and let me know where you think he is playing up to par. Because I can wait. He will do this for the entire game. Thanks but no thanks.

But you're ingenious plan to catch me in my vicious scumplans are cute and deserve praise. God, here I go, killing all the useless Townies, because it paints a giant target on me while only making my job harder, dang how could I so foolish to get caught. Darn. If only I hadn't fallen for that trap.

@Gentlefish
 this is what I meant webadict is not interested in the thread all he wants to do is talk about tbf and bait people into an argument to talk about tbf. If anything his contribution to the hread is exactly the same as tbfs. At the very least tbf has expressed reservations about his own play by actively asking what he is doing wrong and is now attempting to correct it. What does it say about a player that goes wah Kill this guy and becomes a broken record doing it? I mean kill him by why keep harping about it? Or does he have nothing to add to the theead? Web has had multiple opportunities to comment on other players. He needs votes for death.

[roo]

Ahhh mobile posting busy busy.

[johiah]

@Hapah
May I ask why you are voting me?

[webadict]

@roo: That goes counter to your initial vote for me then. You never once suggested this was for any other reason than because of TBF. You originally stated that my policyvoting TBF was precisely what you found suspicious. And I answered your other question about my reads in that I literally do not care about anyone else. You want to write about how little I care about them?

That's pointless, especially since you're reaching the point where you're basically ignoring any real evidence, essentially doing the exact same thing you're accusing me of. Tunnel me harder, senpai, I learned it from you.

And just so you don't get confused, my RVS vote is ALWAYS to kill. I don't play around. If it wasn't a threat, it wouldn't be useful. Why would you be scared if the red word had a safety on? I WANT TBF dead. More than anyone else. Everyone else is useful while alive, even you, but TBF will actively destroy the Town, merely by existence.

I want you to look at TBF's play and let me know where you think he is playing up to par. Because I can wait. He will do this for the entire game. Thanks but no thanks.

But you're ingenious plan to catch me in my vicious scumplans are cute and deserve praise. God, here I go, killing all the useless Townies, because it paints a giant target on me while only making my job harder, dang how could I so foolish to get caught. Darn. If only I hadn't fallen for that trap.

@Gentlefish
 this is what I meant webadict is not interested in the thread all he wants to do is talk about tbf and bait people into an argument to talk about tbf. If anything his contribution to the hread is exactly the same as tbfs. At the very least tbf has expressed reservations about his own play by actively asking what he is doing wrong and is now attempting to correct it. What does it say about a player that goes wah Kill this guy and becomes a broken record doing it? I mean kill him by why keep harping about it? Or does he have nothing to add to the theead? Web has had multiple opportunities to comment on other players. He needs votes for death.

You don't know this, but TBF has also said he'll do better every time he's been asked to do so. I want him to really realize just how much I mean it.

So, please, show me where he's improved.

I'm still waiting on these citations.

@Hapah: I was hoping to get an idea of your town meta and scum meta, but it's been four years and you don't remember details, so your meta has probably changed.  But if you were scum, you could have fed me bad intel, as was.

His latest and greatest uselessness. Explain to me how this is useful. This is completely useless garbage that tells you what about him?