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[Tiruin]

Tiruin
Do you have any reads on Cinder or flame99, and if so what are they?

I'm reading them as silent and uncertain :O Inferring by behavior, I lean along the idea that Flame99 isn't actually active lurking, but by their tone consistently, it may seem like they're not enjoying the game because of reasons unknown (as in, it's not mentioned, and while I may be inferring this, the consistency is too much to assume anything malicious; reading her as town-ish in that sort of regard).
Cinder is of the opposite in that she is experienced in Mafia in turn, but given the unorthodox START of the game, I can bring up reason that my judgement of activity and content therein may not be the best measurement as the Kingmaker-theme + Y/N really narrows down activity for those who may not be that familiar with how to read others or get to that point in time :O Reading neutral.
However some posts of hers nudge me towny, because of how direct and sincere they come off as. She has also directly claimed..as...being..."the inspection"? So it's really leaning towny because of the implications that has.

Spoiler: Implications for newbies (click to show/hide)

If someone claims any sort of investigative role, this is a high priority for the scumteam; 'scum' usually means 'anyone against the town wincondition', so this pertains to hostile/malicious third parties like serial killers, alongside including the "Mafia", the archenemy of the Town. Scum can also pertain to Survivors based on assumptions of attitude--and primarily this, because the usual context is 'Mafia usually win because of their coordination, and outnumber town by killing them off, so survivors in order to fulfill their wincondition [survive], have to side with the Mafia', and thus have gained a stigma to be seen as this even BEFORE any sort of LYLO situation [Mafia nearly outnumbering Town] occurs.

Backing up--an investigative role is VERY powerful, because it discerns 'alignment'. Alignment is what determines if a person is Town or Scum or Mafia or Third-Party; basically connected to your Wincondition. The objective of Mafia is both a social and analytical game--players each proceed to individually follow their wincondition as best as they can, alongside using their own social experience to be good sports and have fun.

The investigative role usually has investigative abilities, letting someone act during a certain phase, with results generally giving "Town", "Mafia" or "Third-party" (with specifics of this sort depending on the mod, game type, and ability). Usually, this is a DIRECT ability, in that it cannot be circumvented or protected against; any protections against an investigation usually come in the form of:
> A Roleblocker; the investigator is blocked.
> A Jailkeeper; this role both PROTECTS (from kills) and ROLEBLOCKS the target. So while it is benevolent, it stops the target from acting unless the action is before the 'Block' slot, in the action order* [*See below]
> A Killer: The investigator always acts before a killer unless otherwise mentioned, but they can be the target of a kill, thus rendering them dead come day, unless they can defend or subvert the kill in anyway possible.
> A Redirector; they can MOVE your target, so if you targeted person A and got redirected to person B, you receive a result on person B instead. This however still gains you information compared to the common role themes above.
***It is to be noted that one can only use one ability per night unless otherwise mentioned. The same probably doesn't apply with Day abilities.

--To use an in context case; CINDER claimed that she...investigate-ish'd TBF.
TBF is DEAD. TBF is TOWN.
So someone can infer that Cinder received TOWN on TBF last night.

Spoiler: Related to the above spoiler (click to show/hide)

This is the action order:
Copy
Hide
Bus
Block
Redirect
Protect
Inspect
Kill
Recruit

> Copy means 'you copy this ability; either your own or another's ability, as specified by the ability description'
> Hide = "Hide from anyone action'ing on you. Their actions will fail, but any one-shots will not be used'; I forget if this protects from kills though!
> Bus = Just like a double redirector; anything happening to Person A affects B, and to B affects A.
> Recruit = A "CULT" ability; changing someone's alignment to the one alongside the person who has this ability, usually. It is commonly seen in unorthodox games--probably not this one :V I'm betting it isn't present here anyway--wherein the Cultist is a third-party.

I also just remembered neither of them have done a BM and if ever possible--my offer of hosting the next BM is still up. :3

[Tiruin]

Well I got it too, but I can't use it.

So...what abilities do you keep when you revive o_O
Do you keep your auto?

[webadict]

Well, thank you doll. That's what I've wanted to say for so long. You get a special power tonight.

[doll]

Tiruin
Cinder explictly claimed not-cop ('detective' who only gets role names)

Spoiler: quote pyramid (click to show/hide)

I wanna see if I can vote TDS.

If I'm reading the rules right, aren't our votes for who to lynch basically just suggestions? Can't imagine TDS would lynch himself.

Yo, Cinders, it is entirely possible that the kill could roleblock at the same time. Also, you never gave me a list, so I never gave you an item. Trades are trades. Are you afraid of an inspection?

I am the inspection.

...? Are you claiming cop?

webadict: I'd be fine with receiving a gift.

A somewhat inefficient one, and one that can't really tell scum from town.

... What? Explain, please.

I can find rolenames, but I'm not sure what good that would do, so I've been using it on people whose roles I don't know yet.

Please do argue with me about TDS.
I agree that I'd rather like him out of the game, but I'm also confident that he's town, so I'm not going to vote him, and I am going to find it very suspicious if you can't build at least one other case during this day.
I'd like to point out at this point that quite a number of things should be able to be intuited about my role.
To add fuel to such a fire, I'll add the following: I can confirm that Tiruin is correct about the slot machine results list.As an aside, you should probably host that BM right now. We don't have a super-conventional game running or close to doing so, and there is a lot of new blood floating around (I, for one, have not done a BM).For those that missed it, I've pivoted into position to tunnel Tiruin and flame99 now.
I'd be fairly amazed if they were in a team together (and I'm working with the assumption of 2 mafia purely on moderator WIFOM, both from TBF and the last FBYOR).
I'm tunneling a bite sized (and scum team sized, incidentally) group to avoid drawing votes uselessly onto my surroundings and to keep them packed where I want the pressure (and the lynch).

Well, thank you doll. That's what I've wanted to say for so long. You get a special power tonight.

Well, you should have said it then.
The player who worries me the most right now is 4maskwolf, because I don't have a track of where he's at and I suspect he's probably kept up with what I've leaked about my role.
Of course, saying this here is pure WIFOM and leaks information about my role besides. Why would I do that? Am I that confident that I can outwit 4maskwolf? Am I that confident that I can't outwit 4maskwolf? Is this whole thing a charade to encourage posting? Find out tonight only at the WIFOM arena.

[doll]

You get a special power tonight.

So I'm town?
In such a case, it's presently a TDS-webadict-BHK-Tiruin-doll (suspected) townteam, and a Cinder-4maskwolf-flame99 picklist for scum.
flame99
Do you have a killing power?
Is it reliable?
Why am I shifting my stance so rapidly and making so many bold assertions, claims and poses?

[webadict]

Eh, I tried to, but it got super heated and it wasn't productive. It was hampering town even more.

But, yeah, I'm mostly in the same boat. I was a little more hesitant about TDS though, but logically... His power can't be scum. It would be broken. I do wish he'd be wiser about his vote choices though. Which is why I also agree with Tiruin.

Out of the two of Cinder and flame99, I'm more suspicious of Cinder. She's ridiculously quiet, and still hasn't opened up about anything really. Flame is hesistant but I'm not against lynching her either, but she seems to want to try. Hopefully.

[Tiruin]

But, yeah, I'm mostly in the same boat. I was a little more hesitant about TDS though, but logically... His power can't be scum. It would be broken. I do wish he'd be wiser about his vote choices though. Which is why I also agree with Tiruin.

PFP
This is what I'm seriously questioning--if the MOD gives abilities that make a person really seem one way or another, that's not in fairness to the theme [unless BASIC is quite like this], and if otherwise, I noticed my mistake later on when I re-read it. It DOESN'T bias the person one way or another because it is a TWO part phase ability, rather than an actual Kingmaker theme. They pick; we vote.
It's pretty much like vanilla (which I've posted about...twice I think) that way.

Also...that's some harsh stuff said to Flame o_O I can get pressure. I can't get the usage of 'incompetent'. Even considering semantic technicalities, that's a rough tool from the vocabulary box.

[flame99]

flame99

As I've said again and again, I've not posted much because I have no real idea of what to say.

"Oh woe is me, I am a new player and refuse to say anything while pretending this somehow contributes to the daygame"

Yes. That's definitely what I said, jackass, and not at all that I don't have the knowledge to contribute to the day game. But let's refute this anyways: I haven't claimed to have contributed yet, and the alternative right now is for me to spam the thread with pointless, baseless accusations because that's all I have the know-how to give at the moment. Seeing as that'd just bog down the thread and impede actual discussion, let's not.

Webadict has made some rather extreme accusations and went for blood at very little provocation, but everybody seems to be ignoring that, so I guess that's normal. Like I said, I can't contribute much.
Why don't you make a big thing about it if everyone is ignoring it?
If you've found what you think are scum, and you're just going to let it sit because other people aren't picking up on it, you're going to struggle to win games no matter how insightful you are.
Furthermore, making a case gives other players the ability to read you. I'm voting you now because you've given out no information on yourself or another player (real information, not barebones mechanical interaction) and have taken a stance where you intend to continue that position. Well, if I don't have any indication that you're town and you're not promising me a chance to get an indication that you're scum, I'll try to kill you now so I don't have to deal with a complete unknown.

Did you not read the first half of the thread, or are you just playing dumb? I did make a case against WA and people ignored that case. And please, do kill me; thus far this game has just been stressful and annoying and I'd be fine with being killed.

Care to speculate?
If someone asks you a question and you don't know the answer in definitive terms (hint: you never will), then give the best answer you can give at this time. Say 'I don't like the feeling of how X did Y' or 'X generated a lot of activity and their case on Z was well reasoned so I'm leaning towards thinking they're town'. The fact that you're not engaging with the daygame is actually scummy in itself, since a low information low activity daygame is usually pro-scum, but in your case maybe you're just new. Guess what? I don't care.

Okay, fine. I dislike how you've immediately gone for blood with little evidence outside of "you've been a bit quiet," and - oh wait! This is almost the exact case I made against WA, the one that was ignored by everyone and got me labeled as scum! Gee, I can't think of a single reason for me to not want to speculate here.

You're still making the day easier for scum by not forcing out content.

This one gets its own quote because I suspect it's just as stupid in the context of skilled mafia players as it is in novices. Let me get this straight:
I am making it easier for scum
Because I'm not forcing out information
The informed minority gets a benefit from more information
And the uninformed majority doesn't benefit from more information.
Cool. Got it.

Well, you've raised two possible lines of inquiry, so that's clearly not so hard that you can't do it.
Why not build on what you've just said an elaborate as to why wuba or TDS might be third party, and whether or not you think that is likely given their behavior to this point?

Sensibility! Rationality! How I've missed that. But, I still can't say much here. My only thought for WA is his wincon might revolve around giving out items, and there may be less incentive to give them to town only as he implies. TDS might have some sort of hidden agenda (I don't exactly know who Shakager is but I gather they're a player with a habit of taking over games, and that seems fitting to me), but i doubt he'd have any real reason to side against the town with how strong his auto was.

You need to let go of mechanics for the most part. They have very little to do with the actual daygame, because the daygame is all about information and finding out who knows more than you and why you shouldn't kill them (note well: the default position is that you should be killing anyone better informed than you, because they're scum).

I've hardly mentioned mechanics. What?

Do you have a killing power?
Is it reliable?

you need to let go o no, that's petty even for me
I do, but it has a "wind up" of sorts (goes off the night after I set it, and I can remove it but not replace it on the second night) , and naturally is a one-shot. I also have an anti roleblock nightly, with the added benefit of removing abilities from those who try to rb my target.


And now, for a special "fuck you"

unprovoked spite

Unprovoked my ass! I've been insulted and condescended at just about every turn, yourself included, in this fucking game that I don't want to be playing. You also went on in the next breath to insult me, again entirely needlessly, and that's certainly not been new in this thread. Yeah. Un-fucking-provoked. Yes, this is hypocritical after the above post. No, I don't give a shit.

[webadict]

Hey flame, here's a curveball for you: How can you justify why I pulled the lever if my wincon revolves around giving away items. I would gain nothing useful and have a 10% chance to literally have no way to win, right?

[flame99]

Hm, yeah, good point. As I said, there's not much basis for it.

[flame99]

To clarify, I get my kill back if I remove it. I just can't place it again until the following night.

[webadict]

Hm, yeah, good point. As I said, there's not much basis for it.

I mean, I could have an ability that negates the risk, though. Or perhaps I calculated the risk to be negligible enough to take. This wouldn't be the first time I have staked everything on a dice roll.

Especially since you have anti-risk in your role.

But why third party? Why not scum?

[Tiruin]

Hey flame, here's a curveball for you: How can you justify why I pulled the lever if my wincon revolves around giving away items. I would gain nothing useful and have a 10% chance to literally have no way to win, right?

It's actually more than 10% since 4 rolls equal a 'free action being used and you gained nothing but nothing'.
*ahem*
But that's obviously speaking for 'no way to win = losing something'

To clarify, I get my kill back if I remove it. I just can't place it again until the following night.

Iiis there a reason you claimed your kill (or ability in general)? :O

[flame99]

Insofar you've claimed to have given out a fair few items. Unless there really are a lot of scum, you couldn't have given them all to teammates who would go along with the lie, not without running out quickly and outing yourself and all your teammates. So, the items are pretty plainly real. Even with as weird as this round has proven, ability wise, I don't think mafia would get a power that rather explicitly aids the town. Also, if you are scum - why claim that power immediately? You could've quietly given them to your friends and let the town go without. Or, if they're traps and you *want* the town to get them, why not send them anonymously? It doesn't really add up. So, you're likely either town or third party.

[Tiruin]

EBWOP because I pressed post rather than preview >_>

Hey flame, here's a curveball for you: How can you justify why I pulled the lever if my wincon revolves around giving away items. I would gain nothing useful and have a 10% chance to literally have no way to win, right?

It's actually more than 10% since 4 rolls equal a 'free action being used and you gained nothing but nothing'.
*ahem*
But that's obviously speaking for 'no way to win = losing something'

To clarify, I get my kill back if I remove it. I just can't place it again until the following night.

Iiis there a reason you claimed your kill (or ability in general)? :O

I did make a case against WA and people ignored that case.

I didn't! O_O