As for last night, I keep thinking about it and really don't feel like Biden did as bad as it seemed. It's difficult to deal with someone doing what Trump was doing without either go as low as Trump was going and turning it into a full on episode of Jerry Springer with thrown furniture included. Or simply walking away until everyone starts playing by the rules. Neither of those reactions would have been good for Biden, but while he did get dragged down by Trump a few times and took the bait to name calling, when Biden did get a chance to chain a couple of sentences together without interruption, it went well. Trump's responses were sometimes interestingly clear compared to the word soup we're used to hearing from Trump, but none of his responses were anything that would be swaying people. He didn't try to pivot to the center. He didn't pretend his base wasn't made up of extremists. Nothing he said changed anyone's opinion of what Trump is. If you liked him before last night, you'd like him after last night. And if you hated him, you'll still hate him. I don't think Biden did well... but Biden hasn't done well in debates, at least not in recent memory... and he still got to where he is, with the polling where it is. And at the end of the day, he's still running against Trump and is still likely going to be a preferable choice for the majority of people. Let's just hope that majority is distributed in a way that makes up 270 votes on the map.
I haven't watched the whole thing and probably won't bother. But I watched something like 1/2 to 2/3 of it in random large chunks. I think Biden got trounced. It went exactly as I've been expecting this would since before Biden was nominated.
I agree with MSH that the debates probably won't effect the votes of many people. But the people open to being swayed are those who don't know the issues enough to recognize when Trump is lying. Trump spoke many times more quickly, smoothly, and confidently than Biden. That's how you project your words as having more sincerity and authority to know-nothings. When you're soft, halting, stumbling, slow and cautious, many interpret this as you're either not confident in what you're saying or you're making up lies on the spot. Especially in American culture, which is incredibly authoritarian.
I am myself really soft-spoken, careful with my words, and leave myself open to being wrong. It's how I express sincerity and intellectual honesty, but it's gotten me in trouble when in leadership positions or when working with certain personalities. Because most people do not interpret that manner of speaking as such. You can't afford to speak this way on a national debate stage and hope to portray yourself as a leadership figure next to someone like Trump.
Biden face-vaulted hard compared to Trump when challenged on his record. It happened to both of them. But whenever it happened to Trump, he seemed prepared and confident. For someone who knows the issues or who knows how to recognize narcissistic speech, they know that he bullshitted his way through it. But for anyone else, he did so confidently and smoothly, and always quickly turned it into an attack on his opponent. And not in a "I'm going to ignore the question and talk about something else" fashion that's common among politicians. He'd say something self-promoting in his defense and then transition to how Biden/the left are worse on that issue. He'd never end on the defensive. It was all bullshit, but as I mentioned, that doesn't matter in terms of swaying those likely available to be swayed.
Biden, in comparison, never had anything to say when challenged on his record. He'd dodge or stumble and always leave off his speaking time still feeling like he was on the defensive.
Yeah, Trump made an ass of himself, and it seems like so many are constantly expecting that to work against him somehow. But everyone, even the most apolitical, is aware of Trump's personality at this point, I'm sure. There is a disturbingly large portion of American culture which loves that type of personality. Trump's made an ass of himself all day every day of his entire life. If this were a deal-breaker to a significant number of people, he never would have become president in the first place.
And the worst comparison is that Trump actually knows how to appeal to his base. Biden's appeal remains nothing more than being Not Trump, and he fails to represent anything other than a wishy washy general idea of returning to business as usual that's nicer and better in mostly ill-defined ways than the way things are under Trump. Take the policing segment for example. Trump hammers on exactly what his base wants to hear. Biden runs with the "weed out the few bad apples" idea that few among his base believe anymore, says absolutely nothing about how he's going to make anything better besides "I'm going to get a bunch of people together and we'll work it out", and then condemns violent protesters, actively feeding right-wing propaganda on the subject. Who does this appeal to right now? I'm exposed to plenty of centrist lib talk. They would have gone for this a year ago, but not now. That's moderate republican ground these days, and we've already had plenty of talk on this forum about the political strategy of alienating the left to try and steal moderate republican votes. It's not going to work. Trump represents and appeals to his base, while Biden continued his grand strategy through this debate of representing and appealing to no one and nothing, relying solely on being Not Trump.
And it is possible to contend with personalities like Trump without sinking to their level. It's not easy. But there are certainly people who can do it. The most effective, I think, is patient deadpan snark. Let the guy blow his hot air. Then pick a key point and punch a gaping hole through it with some sharp, concise words. You don't have to respond to everything. You don't have to speak half as much as he does. You just have to poke holes, and the entire act will deflate on its own. Trump's style of rhetoric is like a balloon. Inflated, but hollow. It attacks by smothering with its exaggerated size. But if it meets something sharp, it pops, and flies away screaming. Unfortunately, Biden was like a smaller, half-inflated balloon.
That is concerning news for the President, but I'm sure he will take strong actions in the next few weeks to shore up his support with that important demographic, SG.
Oh, I know. It was just an observation relating to the Richard Spencer backing Joe Biden thing. I'm guessing that's what it's about.