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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4225530 times)

RedKing

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #39420 on: September 18, 2020, 09:43:34 pm »

And MSH, on the Gorsuch bit you mentioned, Obama couldn't really have pressed the issue any more than he did. There was literally nothing (legal) he could do to make them process the nomination further, I'm pretty sure. It's not like other types of nominations where presidents can get cheeky with 'acting' or temporary shenanigans.

Things that Obama could have done:

- Not listen to Biden's stupid fucking advice on trying to appease a death cult capitalist with Gorsuch and spend time on more productive things

- Hold a speech every day calling McConnell a criminal for not doing his job as Senate Leader

- Send nominee after nominee while doing this, refuse to let it leave the news cycle

- Refuse to sign any bills until the most pressing business of filling the Supreme Court vacancy is dealt with

- Actually charge McConnell with any of the many crimes he has surely committed in his role and remove him

- Call upon the states for an Article V Convention to amend the Constitution to force McConnell to do his job or preferably not involve him making any decisions

- Illegally appoint a Justice anyway under the Unitary Executive Theory the GOP likes so much, because McConnell has chosen to not offer the "advice and consent" of the Senate and thus given up the Senate's ability to block the nominee.
And then people would have blamed Obama for Clinton losing because "he lost his shit over a Supreme Court Justice and wrecked her chances". Not saying that criticism would have been valid, but that's very much what would have happened.

I agree that one of Obama's problems was regularly bringing a knife to a gun fight, and I expect that'll be a problem with Biden too. But until they start becoming literal gunfights, I'm not sure what else he could have done. And honestly, as bad as the Republicans were from 2008-2016, even I didn't expect them to sink to the levels they have over the last four years.
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delphonso

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #39421 on: September 18, 2020, 09:46:05 pm »

This thread is spicy today.

MrRoboto75

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #39422 on: September 18, 2020, 09:47:07 pm »

It's hilarious to me that people still have enough wishful thinking to believe that "America is in decline".

One plane into a building and two economic declines later, I'd say a lot of people are worse off these days.  Party wise my choices are status quo and fascism, going forwards.  Decline or not its not a good outlook.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #39423 on: September 18, 2020, 09:48:54 pm »

And then people would have blamed Obama for Clinton losing because "he lost his shit over a Supreme Court Justice and wrecked her chances". Not saying that criticism would have been valid, but that's very much what would have happened.

So what you're telling me is that if we'd done things my way, Trump would still be President but there'd be a Democratic majority on the Supreme Court.  8)
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delphonso

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #39424 on: September 18, 2020, 09:50:45 pm »

And Obama would be blamed for something, instead of Sainted in the Church of Moderates.

Dostoevsky

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #39425 on: September 18, 2020, 09:52:01 pm »

I could see Murkowski following through, though at this very moment McConnell has her over a barrel on a priority of her own so he could put the squeeze on her. Sigh. (Wouldn't be the first time this congress he did that, either.)

Grassley... I honestly don't know.

Given the race I suspect Collins would resist until after the election, then readily vote (after said hemming and hawing) in the lame duck.

- Not listen to Biden's stupid fucking advice on trying to appease a death cult capitalist with Gorsuch and spend time on more productive things

Garland, but that was my fault initially for saying Gorsuch. Are you saying to not nominate anyone at all? The staff involved in it were probably specialized in vetting/etc. and so I'm not sure how much of substance that really would have saved.

- Hold a speech every day calling McConnell a criminal for not doing his job as Senate Leader

This conflicts with the above statement? Anyhoo, if he did this I bet most Americans would (unfortunately) just get bored and tune out. (See: Trump's efforts at making constant noise about a topic)

- Send nominee after nominee while doing this, refuse to let it leave the news cycle

Not 100% on this, but I'm somewhat positive congressional procedure here is that one can only have a single nominee at a time for a position, and since Republicans didn't actively vote it down but instead sat on it, there's not a lot he could do. He could nominate then revoke a bunch of folks, hypothetically, but that would probably just piss off the various nominees (also he'd need a list long enough to make sure that if Republicans called the bluff on one it wouldn't turn out very badly for him).

- Refuse to sign any bills until the most pressing business of filling the Supreme Court vacancy is dealt with

The only thing this would accomplish is shutting down the government right before the election (since appropriations are due Oct. 1st of each year), while claiming responsibility for it. Historically things haven't gone down well for whoever takes responsibility for a government shutdown.

- Actually charge McConnell with any of the many crimes he has surely committed in his role and remove him

Funnily enough, being convicted of a crime -- I think even being a felon? -- does not automatically remove someone from being a Senator. There's terrible precedent there, of course.

- Call upon the states for an Article V Convention to amend the Constitution to force McConnell to do his job or preferably not involve him making any decisions

This is a whole separate ball of wax that I can get into some other time, but calling an Article V convention is most likely to just end up a field day for Republicans to rewrite the constitution than it'd help Obama, for various reasons. Regardless of which party would win out it's an incredibly volatile thing to do.

- Illegally appoint a Justice anyway under the Unitary Executive Theory the GOP likes so much, because McConnell has chosen to not offer the "advice and consent" of the Senate and thus given up the Senate's ability to block the nominee.

Would be interesting to know if there's case law here for S. Ct. justices in particular, but the case law on clearly-illegal nominees (unlike the more cheeky stuff Trump has been doing) is pretty cut and dry and would probably get slapped down pretty quick.


All that said, there may have been something he could have done.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #39426 on: September 18, 2020, 09:54:57 pm »

- Not listen to Biden's stupid fucking advice on trying to appease a death cult capitalist with Gorsuch and spend time on more productive things
Garland, but that was my fault initially for saying Gorsuch.

i can't believe you've done this
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Maximum Spin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #39427 on: September 18, 2020, 09:55:27 pm »

It's hilarious to me that people still have enough wishful thinking to believe that "America is in decline".

One plane into a building and two economic declines later, I'd say a lot of people are worse off these days.  Party wise my choices are status quo and fascism, going forwards.  Decline or not its not a good outlook.
There were three planes that went into buildings, man.
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delphonso

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #39428 on: September 18, 2020, 09:58:11 pm »

MaxSpin, I took that  "America is in decline" comment as America has already hit rock bottom. Which I would disagree with but can agree with the spirit of it.

RedKing

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #39429 on: September 18, 2020, 09:59:50 pm »

And then people would have blamed Obama for Clinton losing because "he lost his shit over a Supreme Court Justice and wrecked her chances". Not saying that criticism would have been valid, but that's very much what would have happened.

So what you're telling me is that if we'd done things my way, Trump would still be President but there'd be a Democratic majority on the Supreme Court.  8)
Fair point. But also forfeiting any kind of moral high ground about good governance and rule of law. Not that it really matters, I suppose.


Now -- the worrisome factor: if the vote is delayed until after the election/Inauguration, does that give disspirited Republicans a reason to come out to the polls? I can hear their internal calculus saying "Ok, another four years of Trump is bad, but it's just four years -- getting a safe 6-3 majority on the SC is potentially DECADES".
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Remember, knowledge is power. The power to make other people feel stupid.
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #39430 on: September 18, 2020, 10:03:12 pm »

There's been arguments (with mixed evidence) that the S.Ct. seat in 2016 was the main reason Trump one in the first place. Regardless, I do think this helps Trump more than Biden, which is funny because it'll likely end up a moot point due to lame duck confirmation being pretty likely.
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Maximum Spin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #39431 on: September 18, 2020, 10:04:21 pm »

MaxSpin, I took that  "America is in decline" comment as America has already hit rock bottom. Which I would disagree with but can agree with the spirit of it.
The thing is, that's clearly not true either. Honestly, things are pretty great?
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RedKing

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #39432 on: September 18, 2020, 10:05:11 pm »

MaxSpin, I took that  "America is in decline" comment as America has already hit rock bottom. Which I would disagree with but can agree with the spirit of it.
The thing is, that's clearly not true either. Honestly, things are pretty great?
Bruh. Take me into whatever lily-ass gated world you live in. Please.
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Remember, knowledge is power. The power to make other people feel stupid.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #39433 on: September 18, 2020, 10:06:01 pm »

Spin here claims to be an actual member of the capitalist class, so it's literally a gated world.
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To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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MaximumZero

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #39434 on: September 18, 2020, 10:06:42 pm »

Spin here claims to be an actual member of the capitalist class, so it's literally a gated world.
There's a third opposite of us?
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