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[sluissa]

https://www.snopes.com/2018/03/02/naked-politics-punishing-delta-haunt-georgia/

So, there's a thing going around my more conservative contacts that something like 13 people had used the NRA discount through Delta. (Unsure the timeframe, whether it's all time, this year, this month, etc. Unsure even of the source.) And now Georgia politicians have used a jet fuel tax break to the tune of $40 million to punish Delta for stepping on the toes of what is apparently not more than a baker's dozen of people.

From my contacts point of view, it's putting a clear and massive price tag on corporate virtue signalling. And I can't see how they're wrong there, at least in this one particular case.

However, I do believe as much as it actually IS virtue signalling, Delta is 100% in their right to revoke those discounts and politicians shouldn't be able to hold that against them. On the other hand, it's a tax break for Delta. It's a new break they haven't previously depended on and can probably survive without. It's just petty all around. And let's be fair, part of getting stuff from the government(like tax breaks), is that you play by the government's rules, no matter how stupid, or illogical those rules are.

It's frustrating, I can't really see any side of it as "good". It's just petty vindictiveness over a symbolic gesture which had no significant effect one way or another.

Also just to note, that 40 million was just a small part of a massive 5 billion dollar business handout Georgia just passed and signed into law... Because as you know businesses need more handouts. At least the businesses that say the things we like them to say.

 

[Sheb]

Meh, I guess it's mostly for PR/legal reasons than anything else.

Re: labor and environmental tariffs, they're not necessarily terrible idea, especially the environmental one, but you have to be wary. Effectively, you're taxing the poor countries that most need to be able to export if they're to develop. The real issues is when you're banning them from protecting their nascent industries. And of course, you need way to make sure you gain access to their market as they devellop, which is a bit of an issue with China at the moment for example.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/02/business/europe-steel-tariffs-trump.html

There might be tariffs on motorcycles (Harley-Davidson), bourbon whiskey and blue jeans. Striking at the heart of America. The trade war is beginning.

I wonder if they targeted specific district. IIRC, at some point Mexico banned US Christmas tree because the chairman of the Senate Trade Comittee was from a big Christmas tree producing district in Oregon.

[Frumple]

It's definitely been suggested as a possibility. Apparently one of the last trade kerfluffles we lost, we lost in no small part due to the EU specifically targeting the economies of swing states and whatnot.

[sluissa]

It's kind of obvious when you specifically target 3 areas of business in the represented areas of Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell and Nancy Pelosi.

Okay, technically Paul Ryan's area is only in the vicinity of Harley Davidson's headquarters. But it encompasses most of the suburbs south of Milwaukee and probably has a good chunk of the company's voting population living there. But it's a solid choice as something unequivocally "American" to target and quick googling doesn't show ANYTHING noteworthy actually produced in Ryan's district.

[Lord Shonus]

It's also rather hypocritical to impose environmental taxes on other countries when your country is doing just as much damage, if not more and is one of the dicks that denies climate change. Then again, hypocrisy is kind of a standard in politics, not an exception it seems.

That is part of the point. The biggest obstacle to tougher environmental protection laws in the US is businesses saying "if we have to pay for these regulations, we can't compete with China (or wherever) and American business will die!"

Putting a tariff on countries with weaker regulations would kill that argument, and pave the way for the tough rules we need.

[Loud Whispers]

It's definitely been suggested as a possibility. Apparently one of the last trade kerfluffles we lost, we lost in no small part due to the EU specifically targeting the economies of swing states and whatnot.

Hahaha I love this sort of lateral thinking. Not so much the consequences of it - but I can nonetheless admire it. Lesser states can do greater damage by attacking the support bases of their rivals, what a curiosity!

[Sheb]

It's definitely been suggested as a possibility. Apparently one of the last trade kerfluffles we lost, we lost in no small part due to the EU specifically targeting the economies of swing states and whatnot.

Hahaha I love this sort of lateral thinking. Not so much the consequences of it - but I can nonetheless admire it. Lesser states can do greater damage by attacking the support bases of their rivals, what a curiosity!

Meh, the EU is not a lesser state, but yeah it's nice to see that someone at the commission has done its homework and was ready. One feature of the US trade system is that the US president got wide power to set tariffs unilaterally, so it was always a possibility that such a thing would arrive suddenly.

[sluissa]

It's also rather hypocritical to impose environmental taxes on other countries when your country is doing just as much damage, if not more and is one of the dicks that denies climate change. Then again, hypocrisy is kind of a standard in politics, not an exception it seems.

That is part of the point. The biggest obstacle to tougher environmental protection laws in the US is businesses saying "if we have to pay for these regulations, we can't compete with China (or wherever) and American business will die!"

Putting a tariff on countries with weaker regulations would kill that argument, and pave the way for the tough rules we need.

Putting everyone on an equal playing field, providing for the good health and well-being for all, ensuring fair wages to the common worker? Wait a second...

That just sounds like socialism with extra steps.

[Loud Whispers]

Meh, the EU is not a lesser state, but yeah it's nice to see that someone at the commission has done its homework and was ready. One feature of the US trade system is that the US president got wide power to set tariffs unilaterally, so it was always a possibility that such a thing would arrive suddenly.

It is a lesser state. Not a lesser continent - but definitely a lesser state, it is yet to even be a state! What I mean by that is that the continent is a patchwork of nations whose resources (sans military) are superior to the USA, but the USA utilizes its resources far more potently, owing to its centralized government, culture & ethnicity. EU is getting there, but we're not yet at the spicy point where the EU starts conducting its own foreign policy in lieu of the European nations. Consider it like the European powers ransacking China and filling it in opium in the 19th century; the Chinese nation in abstract was undoubtedly the superior of perhaps even all of them combined, but the Euro nations with less resources & people were more capable of using them. If the EU survives it might be able to fully centralize next 50 years or so, provided the Americans or Russians do not confound Europolitics.
Basically the success of the EU targeting swing states in reverse. Washington cannot be confounded the same way the Americans can go to Paris, Rome and Berlin e.t.c. instead of Brussels


Trump calls mai waifu PM Modi of India beautiful

[Sheb]

My brain say your right, but my heart is busy creating tears of pure Europatriotism as I stand in front of my living room's EU flag while listening to the Ode to Joy.

[redwallzyl]

My brain say your right, but my heart is busy creating tears of pure Europatriotism as I stand in front of my living room's EU flag while listening to the Ode to Joy.

What makes a man turn euro? Lust for free movement, common currency? ... or were you just born with a heart full of equality?!

[martinuzz]

I wonder how many steel-using US companies, and how many steel producing EU companies are going to use the ISDS to sue the US state for billions of lost income.
Or wasn't the ISDS snuck in the last time we made a new trade treaty?

[Frumple]

Huh. Apparently response to the tariffs have included such gems as Juncker going, "We can also do stupid." Yeeaah, we're about to have a trade war, alright. Wasn't much chance of otherwise, really, but considering the extent of trump's self control and skin thickness, whatever chance there was has pretty certainly vanished in the face of notably visible people calling it like it is.

[martinuzz]

I'll just say it again, this is just another act of president Trump that plays extremely well into Putin's agenda.
It's almost as if.. Oh,wait.

His presidency will leave NATO weakened, European allies estranged, US economy (even more) busted, and fake news as the new standard polarizing US citizens to the extreme.

[Frumple]

Eehh... the last bit will probably look more like an already shrinking minority continuing to isolate itself about as much as they have been lately, as generational shifts render them increasingly politically irrelevant. The rest, though, yeah. Probably more or less that.

However much I'd call a good day pissing on putin's ashes at this point, he made a pretty impressive investment with trump and co. Not good, arguably damn stupid if you're not, say, speaking some variation of chinese, but definitely a large effect for the resources spent. Least so far as the short term and physical costs go.