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[smjjames]

Which line? 'Communism is evil'?

Communism is worse than nazis, i.e. whoever leftwards you can paint as communist is worse than the skinheads literal or otherwise that are literally killing people. That sort of line.

Sounds more like "Your extremists are worse than my extremists." It all comes down to tribalism really.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Discussions over "ideological killcount" are nonsensical. Between fascism, communism, and capitalism (and that's all strains of all three), it's fascism that has killed the fewest number of people. That should demonstrate right away that it isn't a functional heuristic. The number of people killed by an ideology is directly proportional to what parts of the population are subjected to it, over what period of time it stands.

Of course, it doesn't take much thinking to understand that a fully fascist world would kill more people than a fully communist one or the fully capitalist one we nearly actually have. The precepts of an ideology related to The Enemy That Must Be Destroyed do in fact matter for the practical consequences vis a vis death camps.

[Frumple]

Sounds more like "Your extremists are worse than my extremists." It all comes down to tribalism really.

See, I think I'm actually starting to get irritated by generalizing things like that. I get what's going on, and that it's an attempt to talk ideals or whathaveyou, but what we're dealing with this time is not some kind of faceless hypothetical ideology. It's not your extremists are worse than my extremists. It's "The Nazis I am or am supporting are better than your commies." You can insert basically anything where commies are, really.

There's elements of tribalism involved, but, again. This is literal Nazis and literal Nazi support. The ideology behind that is not terribly vague. The "tribe" one side is trying to support are genocidal fascists that want to see millions upon millions of americans (to say nothing of anyone else) murdered. When folks oppose that sort of thing, however much the nazi supporting shits are engaging in tribalism, what that opposition is engaging in goes a fair bit beyond mere tribalism, and supporting it does, too.

Or, in other words, it doesn't come down to tribalism. It comes down to the flat fucking fact that one of the groups involved here have as an explicit goal -- not a common results, not a side effect, not anything like that -- genocide. Not dominance or political control or whatever the hell that results in genocide, at times, but literal bloody genocide. This isn't some kind of vague hypothetical thing going on, right now. Literal goddamn nazis, and people making excuses for literal goddamn nazis.

This shit is actually getting the GOP to go, "Yo', what in the actual fuck." Y'know?

[misko27]

How can a philosophy based on equal sharing be worse than one based on killing or enslaving everyone that doesn't share your pure bloodline?

Higher kill count

I hate to say it, but I think you aren't giving Hitler his proper due here. If he had as much free reign and time as the communists did, I'm sure his murder count would be more than a match for Stalin and the gang. Hitler didn't get decades to enact his murderous ideology, he barely even had two. Throw in a victory for him and Tojo, and I bet the numbers would tip in their, um, "favor", even relative to our timeline. That's not to mention that they started WW2 and are at last partially responsible for the millions of lives thrown away in it.

It feels weird to have to defend Hitler's capacity for murder, but still: give the world's least favorite Austrian his due.

Of course, it doesn't take much thinking to understand that a fully fascist world would kill more people than a fully communist one or the fully capitalist one we nearly actually have. The precepts of an ideology related to The Enemy That Must Be Destroyed do in fact matter for the practical consequences vis a vis death camps.

This is my other point.

[Loud Whispers]

I hate to say it, but I think you aren't giving Hitler his proper due here. If he had as much free reign and time as the communists did, I'm sure his murder count would be more than a match for Stalin and the gang. Hitler didn't get decades to enact his murderous ideology, he barely even had two. Throw in a victory for him and Tojo, and I bet the numbers would tip in their, um, "favor", even relative to our timeline. That's not to mention that they started WW2 and are at last partially responsible for the millions of lives thrown away in it.

Then what this proves is that communism is so robust it will last to deliver decades of suffering and even when defeated by the allies, has established itself within them. Nazism by comparison is fragile, communism won

It feels weird to have to defend Hitler's capacity for murder, but still: give the world's least favorite Austrian his due.

A relic of facestabbing calc threads

[Max™]

Feels silly though to blame socialism by way of the communist killcount and ignore all the deaths in the name of profit, but I'm pretty sure we're not talking about a case where violent marxists are marching around with torches and talking about how awesome it'll be when they string up the rich fucks who sit around laughing about getting poor people to actually argue in favor of removing their own healthcare and education.

The irony of invoking the same logic as the nazis, namely-- the very existence of the hated group is intolerable, and justifies my hate and violence-- also does not seem to sink in, as evidenced by even some of the statements here in this thread.

How to avoid being targeted by neonazis: don't be anything but the same skin color as those bitchy white betas.

How to avoid being treated like a fucking nazi: DON'T BE A FUCKING NAZI!

Also worth noting, not ironic. The vast majority of times when someone was called a fucking nazi online--damn near every time really--on the other hand was definitely ironic.

Right now though? There are folks marching around with swastikas and torches, there is no irony in calling them neonazis or fucking nazis or fascist pricks or what-have-you.

If I am hard on the left leaning people of this thread, it is because I expect and demand better from them. I see them becoming exactly the thing they rail against, and it displeases me greatly.

Hey man, when I start suggesting we take all white people and toss them in ovens so we can establish a brown ethnostate--which will require tossing about 5/8ths of myself in there too, oops--by all fucking means say something.

When they try to weasel out of it with no true scottsmen, appeals to emotion fallacies, shameless enshrinement of systemic biases, et al--- I get a bit hostile, and start whipping out the neutral sources, and neutral rhetoric to try and rein them back into the straight and narrow path of progress, and away from violence and hate.

I'm probably one of the more violent antinazi folks here and even I'm not talking about killing them, you find after enough fights that few people are eager to continue doing something after a couple of quick pops to the jaw, and I've got a remarkably easy condition to avoid being a punchtarget: Don't. Be. A. Fucking. Nazi!

[Loud Whispers]

Feels silly though to blame socialism by way of the communist killcount and ignore all the deaths in the name of profit, but I'm pretty sure we're not talking about a case where violent marxists are marching around with torches and talking about how awesome it'll be when they string up the rich fucks who sit around laughing about getting poor people to actually argue in favor of removing their own healthcare and education.

m8 imma blow your mind and tell you capitalism and communism a shit at the same time. sharia banking 4 uuuu

How to avoid being treated like a fucking nazi: DON'T BE A FUCKING NAZI!

So when Antifa shut down a left-wing jewish bookstore owned by the grand children of holocaust suvivors for being nazis, what did they do wrong? They were the exact opposite of nazis, and were still targeted for being nazis. They are just the most hilariously obvious example of where antifa were easily manipulated or retarded in their selection of targets. I think it's over now, but before these riots, random shitposting anons were using antifa to attack leftists for being nazis. You can't get any clearer where this shoot first, confirm nazi later mentality is a huge own goal

Also worth noting, not ironic. The vast majority of times when someone was called a fucking nazi online--damn near every time really--on the other hand was definitely ironic.
Right now though? There are folks marching around with swastikas and torches, there is no irony in calling them neonazis or fucking nazis or fascist pricks or what-have-you.

And we've already had false allegations or malicious allegations of people who weren't at that rally getting their lives ruined for being nazis when they weren't there. It is like as soon as a moral enemy appears americlaps suspend all logic. Happened with witches, nazis, gommies, osama, nazis

Hey man, when I start suggesting we take all white people and toss them in ovens so we can establish a brown ethnostate--which will require tossing about 5/8ths of myself in there too, oops--by all fucking means say something.

qft

I'm probably one of the more violent antinazi folks here and even I'm not talking about killing them, you find after enough fights that few people are eager to continue doing something after a couple of quick pops to the jaw, and I've got a remarkably easy condition to avoid being a punchtarget: Don't. Be. A. Fucking. Nazi!

ayyyy lmao

[Playergamer]

i will never be as enlightened as loud whispers but i can try.

plz teach me sensay.

also i forgot about that song, god its awful

[Max™]

Feels silly though to blame socialism by way of the communist killcount and ignore all the deaths in the name of profit, but I'm pretty sure we're not talking about a case where violent marxists are marching around with torches and talking about how awesome it'll be when they string up the rich fucks who sit around laughing about getting poor people to actually argue in favor of removing their own healthcare and education.

m8 imma blow your mind and tell you capitalism and communism a shit at the same time. sharia banking 4 uuuu

*boosh*

How to avoid being treated like a fucking nazi: DON'T BE A FUCKING NAZI!

So when Antifa shut down a left-wing jewish bookstore owned by the grand children of holocaust suvivors for being nazis, what did they do wrong? They were the exact opposite of nazis, and were still targeted for being nazis. They are just the most hilariously obvious example of where antifa were easily manipulated or retarded in their selection of targets. I think it's over now, but before these riots, random shitposting anons were using antifa to attack leftists for being nazis. You can't get any clearer where this shoot first, confirm nazi later mentality is a huge own goal

And we've already had false allegations or malicious allegations of people who weren't at that rally getting their lives ruined for being nazis when they weren't there. It is like as soon as a moral enemy appears americlaps suspend all logic. Happened with witches, nazis, gommies, osama, nazis

Antifa need to work on their aim and piss me off for numerous reasons but I'm not talking about socking anyone I think might be a nazi in the jaw "just in case" here, I'm saying when someone marches around throwing the salutes with swastika armbands and flags, you pop them in the jaw and make them stop.

Worst case, it's a really fucking stupid cosplay choice, you can apologize and get them a drink or something.

[Trekkin]

i will never be as enlightened as loud whispers but i can try.

plz teach me sensay.

also i forgot about that song, god its awful

Well, since you're so willing to learn: 先生 is generally spelled "sensei" in rōmaji.

[misko27]

Then what this proves is that communism is so robust it will last to deliver decades of suffering and even when defeated by the allies, has established itself within them. Nazism by comparison is fragile, communism won

Truly has the darkness of racist, violent far-right nationalism been overwhelmed by communism. On an unrelated note, has anyone seen my homeland Yugoslavia recently? I could have sworn it was there a minute ago, but there seems to be nothing but blood stains left...

EDIT: I'll clarify my point actually. People play the killcount game and deduce hitler is less violent that Stalin, and often follow up by implying that communism is worse than Nazism. I'm really no fan of communism (my family left for a reason), but I feel far-right violence gets a pass relative to it because Stalin is a communist and all communists must answer for the actions of all the other communists. I'm fine with that, but I'd like that the very real and very bloody radical nationalism of today gets a pass, purely because it doesn't have a superpower that lasted for half a century backing it and promoting some "grand universal theory" version of it like Communism.

[smjjames]

Oh man, does Pence realize that he's risking trashing his reputation by standing by Trump?

I don't have much sympathy for Pence and he knew what he was signing up for, but still, really? Pretty much the only reason for that political calculus is to make Trump think he's still loyal.

Edit: And now Trump is disbanding his business councils....

[Loud Whispers]

Antifa need to work on their aim and piss me off for numerous reasons but I'm not talking about socking anyone I think might be a nazi in the jaw "just in case" here, I'm saying when someone marches around throwing the salutes with swastika armbands and flags, you pop them in the jaw and make them stop.
Worst case, it's a really fucking stupid cosplay choice, you can apologize and get them a drink or something.

When fighting Islamism with bullets and fists: it is like throwing water on oil, you're just spreading it around, all until someone drops a match. What differs now? Breaking their jaw is easily the worst solution, because it will just steel their conviction and make them feel like they have suffered meaningfully for their cause, it is the same principle behind hazing in groups - you can take a meaningless group or special club, beat up the newbies, the newbies will then vehemently defend the value of the special club even if it's some useless club penguin shit. Secondly you've just created an angry violent person who is already vulnerable to becoming an angry violent person. Turning a useless larper into a training soldier is not a good idea

Oh man, does Pence realize that he's risking trashing his reputation by standing by Trump?
I don't have much sympathy for Pence and he knew what he was signing up for, but still, really? Pretty much the only reason for that political calculus is to make Trump think he's still loyal.
Edit: And now Trump is disbanding his business councils....

In 2016 ppl were saying Trump risked trashing his reputation by standing by Pence lmao

i will never be as enlightened as loud whispers but i can try. plz teach me sensay. also i forgot about that song, god its awful

memes a day keep idpol away

[smjjames]

Oh man, does Pence realize that he's risking trashing his reputation by standing by Trump?
I don't have much sympathy for Pence and he knew what he was signing up for, but still, really? Pretty much the only reason for that political calculus is to make Trump think he's still loyal.
Edit: And now Trump is disbanding his business councils....

In 2016 ppl were saying Trump risked trashing his reputation by standing by Pence lmao

I heard that it was the other way around. Also, most of the stuff that's happened so far is easy to distance himself from, relatively speaking, but this thing would be REALLY hard if not impossible to distance from.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

They're both risking their reputations by standing by each other, Trump and Pence being from very different strains of the right who don't always get along.