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[RedKing]

Great Neo, you found the number of trans soldiers and the number of total soldiers. Now you can compute a ratio and compare it to the ration of the estimated cost of transition-related healthcare cost compared to total cost.

Yes but you aren't going to convince anyone else except people who strongly believe in welfare nets. Think on their terms.

How much is an individual Trans soldier going to compare to an individual soldier?

Yeah Trans soldiers are a minority... That doesn't give them a right to a bigger share than everyone else.

By the same token, ban smokers from the Army. Why should they use more healthcare dollars?


At some point, this "enlightened selfishness" Ayn Rand bullshit has to DIE. It's tearing away at the very concept of civil society.

[Neonivek]

By the same token, ban smokers from the Army. Why should they use more healthcare dollars?

Oddly enough that is an issue and yes that was actually a thing they have attempted to do just that!

At some point, this "enlightened selfishness" Ayn Rand bullshit has to DIE. It's tearing away at the very concept of civil society.

Look, I am sure the surgery isn't THAT costly compared to the average costs of a soldiers. I am not laying traps here for people to step into.

Though GOODNESS has this whole debate made it hard to find this info... All I have is the average INJURED soldier costs 2-million dollars.

[Sheb]

By the same token, ban smokers from the Army. Why should they use more healthcare dollars?

Oddly enough that is an issue and yes that was actually a thing they have attempted to do just that!

Source?

[RedKing]

By the same token, ban smokers from the Army. Why should they use more healthcare dollars?

Oddly enough that is an issue and yes that was actually a thing they have attempted to do just that!

If by "attempted" you mean, "A DoD study recommended it, and five days later SecDef Robert Gates shot down the idea because, among other things, it would be bad for their stress levels and mental health."

[Neonivek]

It is a bit more than that but pretty much.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoking_in_the_United_States_military

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Anyhow where does this 8.5 million figure come from? Apparently most Trans soldiers don't even want the surgery (In fact... Opting for the bare minimum of 15,000 dollars... Only a fiftieth would opt into that program... since it wouldn't even cover hormones)

The maximum it can cost is well over $100,000... ($140,000 + HRT so about 75,000) Ignoring complications and therapy (which is common)

[RedKing]

RAND Corporation study commissioned as part of the DoD's process to determine their policy on allowing transgender soldiers. (June 2016)

Found that transgender-related health care services was somewhere between $2.9 million and $8.4 million a year, out of $49.3 BILLION for all DoD health care expenditures. So the $8.4 million figure is worst-case scenario.

EDIT: Link to said study.

DOUBLE-EDIT: Study also concluded that the "disruption" portion of 45's tweet is equally bullshit. Assessment of foreign militaries where transgender soldiers were already serving found no significant impact to unit cohesion or readiness. Likewise, assessments of the US military and previous changes like integrating units on lines of race, gender, and sexual orientation found little to no impacts.

Basically, people have used these bullshit arguments every time the military takes a step to bring it in line with society (or even be out in front of society).
They said putting black soldiers in "white" units would hurt morale.
They said letting gays serve openly would hurt morale.
They said letting women serve in integrated units would hurt morale.
They said letting women serve in combat roles would hurt morale.

They were fucking idiots every time, and they're fucking idiots now.

[Sheb]

From that arch-liberal think-tank, the RAND corporation. They estimate 2.4-8.4 millions USD as the healthcare cost of integrating trans soldiers, corresponding to their own estimate of 1300-6600 trans servicemembers (out of 1.3 millions total).

Edit: Ninjaed.

[Lord Shonus]

EDIT: Healthcare update:

McConnell 'repeal and replace' bill: FAILED
Repeal-only amendment: FAILED, 45-55. Voting against were all Dems plus: Capito, Murkowski, Collins, Heller, McCain, Portman, and in a surprise, Lamar Alexander.

Strange as it is for a Republican Senator in this administration, Portman (who I not only voted against in his last two elections but adamantly opposed) has earned a great deal of respect from me since Trump went into office.

For that matter, Governor Kasich (A list through my past posts will probably find me calling him "Satan" or similar) gained a lot of respect from me when he line-vetoed measures to kill Medicare in the last Ohio budget.

[Neonivek]

So the question is... Do the American people want to pay over 200k additional dollars per soldier just for being trans, along with an extra 2 months paid vacation?

out of $49.3 BILLION for all DoD health care expenditures

Seriously this reasoning would NEVER fly, I would never accept this reasoning. People want to CUT needless spending on the military to the point where even the pots and pans in the soldier's packs have been put up to scrutiny and the excuse of "Ohh, well their packs are just a small percent of their total cost" has never flew.

This is what business and corps do to get you to spend more then you normally would.

EVERYTHING looks small when you look at it from the total. Why don't you compare it to the total amount of money the USA has spent on Butter? (Billions!)

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NOW! You could compare it to the average cost to actually field a soldier which is between $800,000 to $1,400,000... a year

And that Trans surgery cost only applies once (outside Hormone Therapy... which is a 90,000 estimated total cost)... Divide by amount of years of service...

[RedKing]

So the question is... Do the American people want to pay over 200k additional dollars per soldier just for being trans, along with an extra 2 months paid vacation?

out of $49.3 BILLION for all DoD health care expenditures

Seriously this reasoning would NEVER fly, I would never accept this reasoning.

I think that says more about your reasoning than it does about the argument. And yes, I recognize that lots of Americans can't reason worth shit. We have proof of that at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

[Sheb]

Neonivek, can you really not even manage simple divisions? The average comes at less than 2000$/trans soldier, not 200000.

[Neonivek]

Neonivek, can you really not even manage simple divisions? The average comes at less than 2000$/trans soldier, not 200000.

Your lumping Trans soldiers with all the trans soldiers who opt into the surgery. 2000 dollars wouldn't pay for squat! (a YEAR of hormone treatments at best... Or three months of Viagra)

The 8.4 million max are for the Subset of Trans Soldiers who opt in for surgery or hormone therapy (Which judging by the lowest range... Covers hormone only... And highest covers the full surgery)

I think that says more about your reasoning than it does about the argument

Ahuh... "I have 100 dollars, buying this useless rock for 1 dollar is acceptable because it is 100 times less than this 100 dollars. I made a good investment"

[Sheb]

Yeah, because "All the trans soldiers" are the one being excluded from the military in case you haven't noticed.

So the question is... Do the American people want to pay over 200k additional dollars per soldier just for being trans, along with an extra 2 months paid vacation?

And because you litterally said per soldier that is trans here.

...

You know what, I reached my quota of arguing against you for today.

[Neonivek]

That is kind of the rub isn't it? If they are included they MUST be covered if they opt in.

To exempt the surgery would also be considered discriminatory.

And because you litterally said per soldier that is trans here

Fine goodness!!!

So the question is... Do the American people want to pay over 200k additional dollars per soldier just for being trans and opting for the surgery, along with an extra 2 months paid vacation?

Mind you I doubt this will go anywhere.

[Starver]

I am not laying traps here for people to step into.

I thought it was 'traps' that were being discussed, give or take...