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[Blaze]

True, but of the ~100,000 cases of ED from 2004-2013, half of those were classified as "psychogenic", meaning there was little to no physical meaning to it.

[RedKing]

Given Viagra is both a heart medication and a medication that aids with impotence...

I don't see an issue.

If it's needed as a heart medication, I'd expect to see a 4F and/or an honorable medical discharge.

EDIT: And I say that as someone who's 4F because of a heart condition that doesn't even require medication.

[Descan]

Under the realization that I'm talking to Neonevik, I will make an *attempt* here:

We know. It's not that the cost of viagra is an issue. It's called a comparison. We are comparing the estimate costs of providing the specific healthcare costs to trans troops, which is being called "too expensive" to the cost of viagra for the military. Nobody here is going "we need to stop paying for viagra!" The point is that, while it is used as a heart medication, most people think of viagra as "make yo dick hard" and yet still do not think that 84 million is too expensive for the military. Then they look at the 8.4 million for medically necessary* treatments for trans troops and go "too expensive, kick 'em out!"

It's a comparison to expose the hypocrisy of caring about 8.4 million for important medical treatment and not caring about 84 million for usually not quite as important drugs.

*and if you take issue with that, I dare you to find a trained medical professional who would say they aren't. I can find plenty that say they are, including the guidance books and guideline that such medical professionals use.

[Frumple]

Also probably worth noting viagra is more shorthand than identifier; stateside it's borderline the common use word for that sort of medication.

The cost includes similar medications, and so far as I'm aware is specifically counting stuff prescribed for ED, not anything else. Dunno if viagra used for heart treatment would have been included, basically.

[Neonivek]

Then they look at the 8.4 million for *medically necessary* treatments for trans troops and go "too expensive, kick 'em out!"

Uhhh... If that was the numbers I'd agree with the "Too expensive". As a extreme minority they seemingly have managed to cost many times what a typical troop seems to have... just because they are trans.

Perhaps not as a whole but on a "Per soldier" basis.

[RedKing]

Nobody here is going "we need to stop paying for viagra!"

Meh, I'll say it. We need to stop paying for Viagra. Unless somebody's dick is floppy because half of it got blown off in combat, I don't see why that should get covered. Soldiers should be more focused on who they're going to kill, not who they're going to fuck.

I'd even go so far as to say ED medication shouldn't be covered under Obamacare. It's not like we're facing a population shortage and need every "little soldier" to stand at attention.

[Neonivek]

RedKing the US is a society that believes in sexual liberation and considers the inability to have sex to be a physical disability.

[Sheb]

Then they look at the 8.4 million for *medically necessary* treatments for trans troops and go "too expensive, kick 'em out!"

Uhhh... If that was the numbers I'd agree with the "Too expensive". As a extreme minority they seemingly have managed to cost many times what a typical troop seems to have... just because they are trans.

Perhaps not as a whole but on a "Per soldier" basis.

Do me a favour and go look up the number of trans soldiers, and the average medical expense per soldier.

[RedKing]

RedKing the US is a society that believes in sexual liberation and considers the inability to have sex to be a physical disability.

That same society slaps restrictions on what people who fall outside the standard deviations of the population can and can't do. I have no problem with slapping a restriction on socializing the cost for frisky pills for guys way past their prime.


EDIT: Healthcare update:

McConnell 'repeal and replace' bill: FAILED
Repeal-only amendment: FAILED, 45-55. Voting against were all Dems plus: Capito, Murkowski, Collins, Heller, McCain, Portman, and in a surprise, Lamar Alexander.

[redwallzyl]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le3pW5TWXsk&t

This is why you don't let trump improvise this speeches.

[Neonivek]

Blarg my post got deleted due to latency issues...

Anyhow the main argument isn't that trans people COULDN'T be protected under a social security umbrella of military spending.

But rather that individually each Trans soldier represents a cost greater than any other.

What you need to do is not compare the cost of "Overall spending" or "Viagra" but rather compare the cost for an ordinary soldier to that of a trans soldier, assuming they are both healthy.

My personal take is that I highly doubt the numbers given. I even did the math to compare Viagra over the entire US military versus the "Trans tax" and found the trans tax was 10x larger.

[Neonivek]

...would you care to actually provide the numbers on that? Sources for your numbers, etc?

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0ahUKEwjLr63Y8KfVAhVL6YMKHfs8AUAQFgg_MAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bloomberg.com%2Fnews%2Farticles%2F2017-07-26%2Fhere-s-how-many-trans-people-serve-in-the-u-s-military&usg=AFQjCNGs2hkIAjpekXPNXVc3KhgPz7nfsw

About 15,500 trans people currently working (and 150,000 who have ever worked)

1.2 mil soldiers with 800k reserves.

[RedKing]

Blarg my post got deleted due to latency issues...

Anyhow the main argument isn't that trans people COULDN'T be protected under a social security umbrella of military spending.

But rather that individually each Trans soldier represents a cost greater than any other.

What you need to do is not compare the cost of "Overall spending" or "Viagra" but rather compare the cost for an ordinary soldier to that of a trans soldier, assuming they are both healthy.

My personal take is that I highly doubt the numbers given. I even did the math to compare Viagra over the entire US military versus the "Trans tax" and found the trans tax was 10x larger.

Let's keep this in perspective that we're talking about the DoD budget here.
$8.4 million dollars is roughly 1/7000 of the DoD budget (0.00014%)
Less than 1/4 of a single Apache helicopter.
Slightly less than the cost of a single M1 Abrams.

We've got the money. This is equivalent to cutting funding for PBS because Big Bird is somehow responsible for the national deficit.


EDIT: Whoops. I was off by a factor of ten. It's 1/70000 of the budget (or 0.000014%).

[Sheb]

Great Neo, you found the number of trans soldiers and the number of total soldiers. Now you can compute a ratio and compare it to the ration of the estimated cost of transition-related healthcare cost compared to total cost.

[Neonivek]

Great Neo, you found the number of trans soldiers and the number of total soldiers. Now you can compute a ratio and compare it to the ration of the estimated cost of transition-related healthcare cost compared to total cost.

Yes but you aren't going to convince anyone else except people who strongly believe in welfare nets. Think on their terms.

How much is an individual Trans soldier going to compare to an individual soldier?

Yeah Trans soldiers are a minority... That doesn't give them a right to a bigger share than everyone else.

Does this surgery increase their cost per capita?