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[Sergarr]

Your friendly neighbour news provider, here to dispense some more news into this thread:

Trump Abruptly Orders 46 Obama-Era Prosecutors to Resign

State department 'unaware' that Mexican foreign minister visited White House

Trump adviser admits to contact with DNC hacker

Stay tuned for new exciting updates!

[Starver]

It helps that Male Clinton seemed to be fairly experienced so much so that he could call upon his experience and credentials.

Fairly bog standard, but then again... I am electing a president not a entertainer.

It is said (but not confirmed) that Adlai Stevenson ('52 and '56 presidential 'hopeful') was called out to by a woman at some rally of his that "You have the vote of every thinking (person/American)!", only for Adlai to respond (by one other turn of phrase or other) that this unfortunately wouldn't be enough to win....

[Starver]

The intention of my comment is not to praise Trump but to recognize that when it comes down to it these are all conscious entities doing things and not cartoon caricatures.

As I started reading this post, I read that opening line as "I come not to praise Trump, but to bury him."

I also saw a similarity, and was going to do a full redo of that extract ("Friends, Americans, Countymen..."), but the inversions needed on the already inverted meanings of the original quote¹ were going to be really confusing as to who meant what by it...  Never underestimate the intelligence of the reader, sure, but never overestimate one's intelligence as a writer, either...

¹ "These guys did nothing wrong in killing Caesar, so please don't let my 'innocent' words rile you up against them. Oh dear, it appears they have..."

[redwallzyl]

http://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2017/03/10/519707931/italian-band-soviet-soviet-denied-entry-to-the-u-s-jailed-and-then-deported

apparently were deporting Foreign bands now.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/03/10/519646252/afghans-who-worked-with-u-s-forces-told-they-can-no-longer-apply-for-special-vis

also were going to be responsible for the deaths of people who helped us.

[sluissa]

http://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2017/03/10/519707931/italian-band-soviet-soviet-denied-entry-to-the-u-s-jailed-and-then-deported

apparently were deporting Foreign bands now.

A shitty title that doesn't show the real situation.

The band tried to enter the US to do a performance without a work visa. Sometimes you can get away with this, but they explicitly told the customs people that's what they were trying to do. When you go up to the border and basically say "Hey, I want to enter your country to do this thing even though I'm not filing the paperwork to do this thing because it's too complicated." Then they're likely going to be required to turn you away.

They were dumb about it. Maybe even intentionally dumb to get attention. (More attention now than they would have gotten for a free performance.)

I'm not saying there aren't issues with the border process, but it is a process, it has to be followed, or else they won't let you in. It's complicated, it's painful, it's dumb, but it's well documented and if you take the time to do things properly, it's not impossible to get in.

TL;DR: Band wants to come in. "Business or pleasure?" "Pleasure, but I'm going to do business while I'm here too." "Did you file the business paperwork?" "No." "Then you can't come in." *Denied*

[Strife26]

http://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2017/03/10/519707931/italian-band-soviet-soviet-denied-entry-to-the-u-s-jailed-and-then-deported

apparently were deporting Foreign bands now.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/03/10/519646252/afghans-who-worked-with-u-s-forces-told-they-can-no-longer-apply-for-special-vis

also were going to be responsible for the deaths of people who helped us.

We've been fucking over the terps we have a moral obligation to for years now. That's neither new nor surprising.

[scriver]

Terps?`

[WealthyRadish]

Interpreters, presumably

[scriver]

Yeah, that interpretation sounds likely .

[Strife26]

Yeah, interpreters. The duffel blog did a bleakly funny piece on it some years ago. They were finally going to get all the visa handed out, thanks to the fact that most of the people who should get them have been murdered. http://www.duffelblog.com/2015/01/state-department-afghan-intepreters/

Note that the duffel blog is satire, but generally accurate in this case.

[Dostoevsky]

Thanks for typing all that out, Misko. Very helpful discourse there, if more than a little unsettling. I'd like to think that strong opposition to the actions while not just turning things into a hatefest could work, but recognize (for the reasons you lay out) that's so difficult to the point it may well be impossible here.

I'm happy and lucky to have a day job that (these days) is essentially to resist certain of his policies through the formal processes that exist, and I'd like to think that the less things get blown up the easier it is to pick up the pieces when Trump is no longer president. But maybe this will end up one of those times where the best one can hope for is for the metaphorical scarring to not be too bad.

(I admittedly have read very little Shakespeare, so was not at all savvy enough to doing a play on that.)

[smjjames]

I wonder if Trump may have accidentially given himself a similar scandal as George W Bushes own US Attorney firing scandal, as mentioned in this Vox article. Because one of those 46 attorneys happens to be Preet Bahara, he refused to resign and practically dared Trump to fire him, which he did.

The bit that seems a lot like the scandal is that Trump had allowed him to stay previously (don't know if it's the same as appointed), and I think I read somewhere that he just happens to be investigating Trump (or Trump company or campaign) related stuff, along with other investigations into associates of Cuomo and something with De Blasio. Edit: Nvm, what I read was here, at the bottom of the article, I don't know if he actually started investigating or not.

However, it doesn't seem like he was neccesarily singled out since Trump was booting out various Obama appointees, apparently in accordance to the way previous adminstrations have done. Though extremely abrupt if that, and pissing people off over the handling of it.

[Max™]

Sadly we can't just rely on people who support him understanding how vile that makes them by association

Stay classy, Bay12.

Like I said you see it as an attack on you, but you're associating with a monster.

You might actually think it cares what happens to you, that it would even help you if you needed it, because you're thinking of it as another human being.

What I'm saying, what misko is saying, is that this thing wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire, you don't even show up on the radar of something like this unless it's as something it can use, a resource to be exploited to gain power, nothing more. This is what pathological narcissists and psychopaths do (who do indeed have much overlap), they rely on people treating them as people to use them. I have the weird situation of wishing more people had experience with them to know how to identify them better, but I don't actually wish anyone had to be exposed to these things, and yes I use terms like "things" and "monsters" and "it" or "that" because you don't treat something like a person when it is incapable of seeing you as a person. I hate that misko sees the same sort of shit in Trump that I do, because I hate knowing what he must have gone through, and I'm glad more people apparently don't... but I wish I knew how to get across what a dangerous thing Trump and those like it are.

If you don't know that and are just operating under a mistaken assumption that you're supporting a person and being attacked for it: I'm sorry, but that's not what is going on here.

If you do know it and are just going along with it under a mistaken assumption that this will work out for the best: you're aiding a monster, and are complicit in what it does.

It flat out has been saying "fuck you, I've got mine, and I'm gonna get more" and it has supporters in D.C. which are actively working to push through shit like the AHCA which directly translates as "fuck all of you poor pieces of shit, go die somewhere, we need a few more 0's on our bank account" and you get offended when someone says that is a disgusting thing to be in favor of? Come on dude, I know republicans fall in line, but it's ok to admit you weren't paying attention, or if you were that you didn't think you should speak up. If you do know what's going on, and you're going along with it, you're supporting shit that it does, even the shit it does to directly fuck over people like you... assuming you aren't earning something like $250,000~500,000 a year at the low end or much more... but why would someone like that care what poor folk like me think about them?

I never felt the need to stamp a big scarlet W on the forehead of people who supported Dubya, shitty though he was. You shouldn't be able to get away with "well I only supported Trump because it had an [R] by the name" after it gets done ruining whatever it manages to ruin. You can quite happily insist Democrats are wrong, bitch about 'but emails' all day, without ever going so far as saying "I support this soulless piece of shit and all the shit it's doing and going to do to fuck everyone over" or you can deal with people who recognize what an awful thing it is calling you out on it, because it isn't about R vs D, it's about people vs monsters.

[sluissa]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

        -------Intentionally not quoting this so it can be deleted later if cooler minds prevail.----------                       

My only response to that is "chill out."

You're directly attacking a lot of people at once. Painting with a very very wide brush. All those other analogies that usually go along with this sort of rhetoric.

Dehumanizing people is not the way to go about this.

[smjjames]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

        -------Intentionally not quoting this so it can be deleted later if cooler minds prevail.----------                       

My only response to that is "chill out."

You're directly attacking a lot of people at once. Painting with a very very wide brush. All those other analogies that usually go along with this sort of rhetoric.

Dehumanizing people is not the way to go about this.

Yeah. We're all (well, everybody that isn't a Trump supporter, which includes some Republicans and some conservatives) frustrated with the way that the Republicans have been handling things, I get it.

There are lots of Republicans and conservatives who are concerned about Trump too, not as many as Democrats and liberals obviously, but they're there.

Trump is a narcissisic POS, I agree here, but bashing everybody that is not a liberal or Democrat isn't going to help things.

Airing your feelings is fine Max, but lets turn down the temp a couple notches since it helps nobody.

Yo Palin, the heck do you mean by 'bits of socialism', and what do YOU mean by socialism? (Also, Sarah Pailn bashing the GOP healthcare bill)

I don't get how government-run healthcare is 'socialism'. I bet you can find instances of government run healthcare before 'socialism' was even a thing.