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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4244205 times)

hector13

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1710 on: February 13, 2017, 12:13:11 am »

...Maybe CBP will finally get a brusque slap to the face now?

Fack off, they detained the former leader of an allied nation a few weeks back, got a slap on the wrist from all those fake news outlets.
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Look, we need to raise a psychopath who will murder God, we have no time to be spending on cooking.

the way your fingertips plant meaningless soliloquies makes me think you are the true evil among us.

smjjames

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1711 on: February 13, 2017, 12:14:54 am »

Eh? No need to be salty hector. I know it's meant to be salty, but it sort of sounds like you're verbally biting his head off, or something.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1712 on: February 13, 2017, 12:16:07 am »

In theory it's more serious to detain a member of your own government than the former leader of another. The cybersecurity angle also aggravates the situation. If JPL gets their cybersec from any of the three letter agencies, there may be...words exchanged.
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hector13

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1713 on: February 13, 2017, 12:18:45 am »

Not salty, just incredulous. I don't really see how a little national security breach is going to convince this administration they're doing wrong, when they're happy to detain former allies for visiting, ironically, a human rights conventions a few years ago.

I mean the guy's got a foreign sounding name and dark skin. Can't be too careful.
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Look, we need to raise a psychopath who will murder God, we have no time to be spending on cooking.

the way your fingertips plant meaningless soliloquies makes me think you are the true evil among us.

martinuzz

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1714 on: February 13, 2017, 03:14:14 am »

https://science.slashdot.org/story/17/02/13/0248240/us-born-nasa-scientist-detained-at-the-border-until-he-unlocked-his-phone

American-born NASA JPL scientist Sidd Bikkannavar was detained at the border for having a foreign-sounding name, after traveling to South America, and forced to give his phone and pin to the CBP who unlocked it and searched it. Except it's a NASA-issued phone which might have had classified information on it, so they forced him to breach national security regulations. Apparently the cyber-security people at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, where this guy works, were not happy about this.

I can hear various nation's intelligence services briefing their agents now.
"Okay guys, we can stop trying to infiltrate high security clearance positions. We now need you to infiltrate as lowly customs officers"
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

Starver

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1715 on: February 13, 2017, 04:05:26 am »

"Trump".is obviously made up name for someone of foreign extraction, funny shade of skin, past visits to various countries of extreme interest, three wives (two of them born abroad), runs at least two Twitter accounts, does not hand over financial information, has a history of legal entanglements and bribes, possibly "Grand Theft Voto" by misrepresenting his credentials.

I think that when he next arrives back into the country, probably on a suspiciously over-equipped plane, he should be subjected to special scrutiny.
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martinuzz

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1716 on: February 13, 2017, 04:17:31 am »

Isn't forcing someone to breach national security regulations a crime punishable by something like, life imprisonment? If I were the responsible CPB grunt, I'd pack my bags and leave the country.

EDIT: to be fair though, the NASA guy should probably have kept refusing to let them access his phone. What were they going to do? Deport a US citizen? Then again, who knows, perhaps he feared of ending up at a blacksite being waterboarded to death.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2017, 04:19:55 am by martinuzz »
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

itisnotlogical

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1717 on: February 13, 2017, 04:23:31 am »

Deport a US citizen?

I could swear that this is one of the things that actually happened as a result of the ban but I'm not sure.
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martinuzz

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1718 on: February 13, 2017, 04:25:17 am »

Technically impossible. Where are they going to deport him to? He's not a citizen to any other country, so no country will let the US deport him to them.

EDIT: if the US is going the way of deporting people because they have a foreign sounding name, can you please deport Trump to Duckburg?
« Last Edit: February 13, 2017, 04:31:17 am by martinuzz »
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

chaoticag

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1719 on: February 13, 2017, 04:31:55 am »

Well, it would be illegal to do so anyway under United States law. That being said, it happens routinely enough in the US apparently. And the destination for deportation tends to be Mexico.
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Starver

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1720 on: February 13, 2017, 04:32:39 am »

In indefinite detention, he might have never been allowed to make the necessary official protestations to his own agency. I know that's a small price to pay for keeping national secrets safe, but with the obvious leverage of deprivation of his rights against him.

Maybe the best way to handle it, if it was accepted as an alternative by the border guy, wouldbhave been to say "keep the phone, let me through, expect a call from people with acronyms in their own job titles telling you what happens next", but I don't think he has that bargaining position, either.

(If I arrive in the US without a phone with anything to scan on it, I'm functionally in the same situation as he is upon surrendering (un-unlocked) his device, but I can't see that being treated the same.)

(3 new replies.)
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DG

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1721 on: February 13, 2017, 06:51:08 am »

Trump and Turnbull Trunbull slip seamlessly into Apocalypse Now.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-12/huw-parkinson-trumpocalypse-now/8263228
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palsch

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1722 on: February 13, 2017, 06:56:39 am »

Knives out for Flynn.

While the baseline news is that the White House has declined to support him there are more brutal stories elsewhere painting a broader picture of incompetence and dysfunction that goes beyond the Russia calls (there is another in the WSJ but their paywall seems to have gotten tougher these days).

The NYT article in particular paints Fynn as disorganised and paranoid, failing to maintain a proper flow of documents or organisation within the council. Part of this seems to be down to power plays against what is described as Bannon's "shadow council", but the end result is that national security executive orders are being signed without being seen by the Secretary of Defence or director of the CIA. Meanwhile Trump appointees are injecting politics into NSC meetings (one exchange on Twitter by Obama era staffers over bringing MAGA mugs to meetings with foreign counterparts), with at least one meeting of deputies headed by a political advisor (Stephen Miller) which looks to be unprecedented. This has lead to fear of political reprisals and paranoia among career staffers in what really needs to be a non-political, hard-headed body.

One name being floated as a replacement is Petraeus, who is generally viewed as someone who could do the job extremely well. Of course, he was guilty of leaking highly classified documents to his mistress while CIA director, and many at the FBI believe he was let off too easily (he was allowed to plead down to a misdemeanour rather than being tried under the Espionage Act) and should be in jail, which may cause some tensions. Not to mention the reaction of the DoD and CIA if he is granted a security clearance again. This is a guy who the Pentagon was looking to retroactively demote only a year ago, and many of those who lead the charge are still in senior positions.

While the NYT article suggests that Priebus is the one who has repaired some of the problems, another article suggests he is seen as in over his head and being considered for replacement. Elsewhere I have seen a lot of the blame for the immigration order and general disunity on Priebus, and a few replacements have been floated already. This piece muses about his having lost Trump's confidence, as well as Spicer being in the doghouse. Ironically Conway is one of the people named as potentially moving up, even to Chief of Staff, when she is the one who may be facing Congressional/legal action for her statements.

I think the general dysfunction is best summed up by the NYT's second paragraph;
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Three weeks into the Trump administration, council staff members get up in the morning, read President Trump’s Twitter posts and struggle to make policy to fit them. Most are kept in the dark about what Mr. Trump tells foreign leaders in his phone calls. Some staff members have turned to encrypted communications to talk with their colleagues, after hearing that Mr. Trump’s top advisers are considering an “insider threat” program that could result in monitoring cellphones and emails for leaks.
Remember this is a executive branch that has not yet nominated appointees for all top positions (the only name floated for Deputy SoS, Elliott Abrams, was reported nixed by Trump due to political criticisms during the campaign), and is still facing Senate battles to get those it has nominated appointed. This shows the cabinet positions confirmed so far, with 13 out of 22 outstanding. That's not counting the lack of staff in sub-cabinet positions, notably the lack of lawyers available to fight their legal defence for the executive orders.

There is then this considerably less airtight piece that suggests the NSA is treating the White House as compromised and is withholding intelligence to keep it out of Kremlin hands. This is probably sensationalism and I haven't been seeing much backing it up elsewhere (other than to say the NSA has always been selective with its intelligence, and that no-one taken seriously talks about 'spies', especially with regards to the NSA). What is notable is that, until January, the Observer was published and part owned by Jared Kushner, Trump's son in law and advisor who has reportedly been deeply involved in the internal battles within the White House.

Among this we have casual chaos as Trump takes a serious briefing alongside an allied head of government at a candlelit dinner table surrounded by high paying guests of his resort. This photo has surfaced.


The national security and intelligence community types I have been following since the election have had as their first concern that Trump would not be able to put together a team that could effectively manage the US's national security apparatus. This is proving to be very true. Combine this with the security threats and damage that Trump's own policies and associations are causing (an overworked and chaotic boarder agency with conflicting orders, ISIS and related groups being handed recruiting windfalls in the Muslim ban, that same ban causing allies and intelligence sources to stop cooperating in the middle east, backing off on white nationalist terrorist groups, lack of trust of the White House from the IC due to the Russia ties) and things are extremely scary. It looks like any threat, any action against the US, is likely to be played for political gain, and that any practical reaction will be chaotic, under informed and poorly coordinated.
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Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1723 on: February 13, 2017, 06:59:09 am »

That NASA guy, if he had raised more of a stink at the time, there's also the risk that they could have realized how shitty it made them look, then made him sign something so he couldn't talk about it without being a whistleblower.

There's actually a no-speak clause in government employee's contracts. e.g. for all the Iraq Contractors corruption cases, we can only actually know the ones that involved civilian contractors who spoke out against their bosses. According to BBC's Daylight Robbery documentary, they speak to one of the lawyers involved and he said there are about 70 other major Iraq War corruption cases not counting all the ones you heard about but we cannot know the details, because they were revealed by federal employees, and they've got gag orders on them.

If they actually had their shit to gether in this NASA thing, they could have made it an actual case, and put a Federal Employee gag order into effect. Then, the CBP could have gotten nothing more than a slap on the wrist, but the gag order would remain on the NASA guy so you can never know what happened to him. But of course the idiots who put him through the wringer were in fact idiots: they were too much idiots to realize that it might be a good idea to not do this to someone, and that if you did you should inform your superiors so they can get in touch with security and hush the issue up.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2017, 07:05:50 am by Reelya »
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Starver

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1724 on: February 13, 2017, 11:09:31 am »

Slight deveation, which I don't really want anyone to follow-up on, but I passed some Pavement Preachers, today, handing out "Was life created, and does it matter?" leaflets (I didn't take one, or stop to chat, at least partially bevause I was in a hurry and neither option was even offered to me to politely reject). And it made me get all nostalgic for a good old YEC/Evolution forum discussion.

Not that it's necessarily a good thing to have one of those, but I sort of long for a time when that's the most belief-based thing that we need currently worry about, and current affairs aren't quite so demanding of our attention.


The old Chinese curse applies, I think.
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