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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4226290 times)

delphonso

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #40860 on: October 25, 2020, 06:47:49 pm »

Could it be that men are pigs and that they are more likely to support unjust or unfair systems if it gives them a slight advantage?

misko27

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #40861 on: October 25, 2020, 06:52:01 pm »

You phrasr that like a question and I do not understand.
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Starver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #40862 on: October 25, 2020, 06:58:00 pm »

Always forget how much people are in favour of things like making sure children can eat, etc, so long as it's not presented as Soshulism.
I favour feeding them exclusively on raw fish.

/insert obvious punchline here.
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McTraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #40863 on: October 25, 2020, 07:01:59 pm »

Two thoughts:

1. The electoral college is one of the best, albeit imperfect, examples of a system that intentionally and explicitly is to avoid rule by majority in some situations.  Proponents of popular vote seem to forget all those times when they don't want majority to rule - why should selection of president be majority rule and not those other things? This is only half facetious - truly a question worthy of debate: by what criteria would you categorize something as "majority rule should be used" versus "sorry, majority rule should not be used"?

2. I'm coming to believe that American Christianity is a good example of a violation of the third commandment. This is too often limited to merely mean "don't use God as a swear word" and totally misses the "don't put God's name on something that doesn't reflect God's character" meaning.
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MrRoboto75

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #40864 on: October 25, 2020, 07:21:01 pm »

Could it be that men are pigs and that they are more likely to support unjust or unfair systems if it gives them a slight advantage?

As a white male I sure do enjoy the privilege of constantly being the villain of society due to original sin I never done.  Love how I'm a pedophile bigot out to pillage and rape every woman I encounter.
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Frumple

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #40865 on: October 25, 2020, 07:43:48 pm »

I don't understand the people who are "America should be 100% Christian" or "100% white" or whatever. What sort of racial or religious purging do they have in mind?!
The best of them (which are still miles upon miles from being good, or even merely not fucking horrible) just don't think it through, I think. They don't have anything in particular in mind, they just want the nebulous other they've spent much their lives seeing demonized to be gone, and they don't care enough to think or give a damn about what it entails. There's not many of those.

The rest of them have some combination of genocide and/or exile on the mind. Maybe just torture and indoctrination if they're feeling generous. These are not good people being discussed, here.
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delphonso

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #40866 on: October 25, 2020, 07:47:41 pm »

Could it be that men are pigs and that they are more likely to support unjust or unfair systems if it gives them a slight advantage?

As a white male I sure do enjoy the privilege of constantly being the villain of society due to original sin I never done.  Love how I'm a pedophile bigot out to pillage and rape every woman I encounter.

We can take comfort in every hero and trustworthy figure in the last forever of media being white and male. Also all our politicians, judges, and police officers. We can weep quietly into our bloated salaries and approved loans. Or, to clear our heads, just walk confidently down the street without risk of verbal harassment or worse.

Parsely

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #40867 on: October 25, 2020, 08:08:21 pm »

Could it be that men are pigs and that they are more likely to support unjust or unfair systems if it gives them a slight advantage?

As a white male I sure do enjoy the privilege of constantly being the villain of society due to original sin I never done.  Love how I'm a pedophile bigot out to pillage and rape every woman I encounter.
Don't worry you're one of the good ones
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MrRoboto75

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #40868 on: October 25, 2020, 08:29:57 pm »

Could it be that men are pigs and that they are more likely to support unjust or unfair systems if it gives them a slight advantage?

As a white male I sure do enjoy the privilege of constantly being the villain of society due to original sin I never done.  Love how I'm a pedophile bigot out to pillage and rape every woman I encounter.

We can take comfort in every hero and trustworthy figure in the last forever of media being white and male. Also all our politicians, judges, and police officers. We can weep quietly into our bloated salaries and approved loans. Or, to clear our heads, just walk confidently down the street without risk of verbal harassment or worse.

Oh yeah that salary I don't have and those loans for the house that also will never exist.  Because the economy doesn't pay anyone who isn't born rich.  Those politicians who don't know me and will never care about me because, again, I'm not born rich and I'm not a corporation.  They'll draft me into the next afganvietiraq they come up with for that defense budget though.  Those cops that exist to protect property that again I'm incapable of owning.  That dark alley that's suicidal to everyone because either way I'll get shot over my bloated salary meagre possessions.  But hey at least it isn't rape, because nobody believes male rape exists outside of prison jokes anyways.

But please tell me more about my magic ivory tower and CEO position while I mull over if I should suicide out of my pathetic ugly autistic life undeserved of love now or in a couple years.

Could it be that men are pigs and that they are more likely to support unjust or unfair systems if it gives them a slight advantage?

As a white male I sure do enjoy the privilege of constantly being the villain of society due to original sin I never done.  Love how I'm a pedophile bigot out to pillage and rape every woman I encounter.
Don't worry you're one of the good ones

But my personal character and actions don't matter, because I have a dick.
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Dostoevsky

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #40869 on: October 25, 2020, 08:32:13 pm »

Regarding gender gap and electoral college, this could be related to the ongoing very strong gap in support by gender between Trump and Biden. The gap has been around for a while, too.

(See: here for historically, and here for in 2020)
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Rolan7

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #40870 on: October 25, 2020, 08:35:09 pm »

@MrRoboto75
Your personal character and actions matter infinitely more to us.  No biological essentialism here, my dude.

I get your frustration, though.  These divisions were masterfully created to keep people divided and at odds, and they are very effective at doing that.  Stereotypes about men are a problem too.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #40871 on: October 25, 2020, 08:43:06 pm »

Oh yeah that salary I don't have and those loans for the house that also will never exist.  Because the economy doesn't pay anyone who isn't born rich.  Those politicians who don't know me and will never care about me because, again, I'm not born rich and I'm not a corporation.  They'll draft me into the next afganvietiraq they come up with for that defense budget though.  Those cops that exist to protect property that again I'm incapable of owning.  That dark alley that's suicidal to everyone because either way I'll get shot over my bloated salary meagre possessions.  But hey at least it isn't rape, because nobody believes male rape exists outside of prison jokes anyways.

But please tell me more about my magic ivory tower and CEO position while I mull over if I should suicide out of my pathetic ugly autistic life undeserved of love now or in a couple years.

But my personal character and actions don't matter, because I have a dick.

And this is what's wrong with America's outlook: The concept of sin. It's splattered on everybody's thoughts, and usually the far more malignant Protestant version of "don't do anything wrong ever" (though the Catholic version is nearly as bad).

Look: It's not about you. You want to say you'd pull the lever and kill inequality if you could? Hey, that's a nice sentiment. But you can't pull the lever. You have no power and no voice, just like the rest of us. You only have what society's mechanisms pay out to you, good and bad, just like the rest of us. Anything more than that is nothing more than a lottery.

There is no original sin, and no personal blame. No personal anything. There's just the machine and its will. There's nothing wrong with you.

If what you feel is that you're being blamed, then feel free to stop feeling that way, because you aren't being blamed. And if what you feel is guilt that you can't stop the machine from butchering innocent people, then feel free to let go of that too, because you can't stop it.

If you had a billion dollars, I might say differently. Then maybe you could force the lever to move, just a tiny inch, and you would be responsible for not doing it. But you don't have a billion dollars, so you're only responsible for your own life.

We do not reject you. We do not ask you to repent. We ask only that you see the machine for what it really is, instead of accepting its comforting lies. And perhaps if millions of us pile on the lever all at once, as the workers that we are, it'll move in spite of the ruling class pushing on the other side to kill us all. Or maybe not. But there is no sin if it doesn't move.
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McTraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #40872 on: October 25, 2020, 09:31:20 pm »

And this is what's wrong with America's outlook: The concept of sin. It's splattered on everybody's thoughts, and usually the far more malignant Protestant version of "don't do anything wrong ever" (though the Catholic version is nearly as bad).

Look: It's not about you. You want to say you'd pull the lever and kill inequality if you could? Hey, that's a nice sentiment. But you can't pull the lever. You have no power and no voice, just like the rest of us. You only have what society's mechanisms pay out to you, good and bad, just like the rest of us. Anything more than that is nothing more than a lottery.

There is no original sin, and no personal blame. No personal anything. There's just the machine and its will. There's nothing wrong with you.

If what you feel is that you're being blamed, then feel free to stop feeling that way, because you aren't being blamed. And if what you feel is guilt that you can't stop the machine from butchering innocent people, then feel free to let go of that too, because you can't stop it.

If you had a billion dollars, I might say differently. Then maybe you could force the lever to move, just a tiny inch, and you would be responsible for not doing it. But you don't have a billion dollars, so you're only responsible for your own life.

We do not reject you. We do not ask you to repent. We ask only that you see the machine for what it really is, instead of accepting its comforting lies. And perhaps if millions of us pile on the lever all at once, as the workers that we are, it'll move in spite of the ruling class pushing on the other side to kill us all. Or maybe not. But there is no sin if it doesn't move.

That's a misrepresentation of what 'sin' is*.  That said, I agree that we don't reject you (MrRoboto75).  I can't say if you have anything for which you want to repent or not though; that's up to you.

That said - don't ever forget, "the machine" is really just people.  The "ruling class" can't do anything without the millions of people actually making the machine parts and operating it.  So I agree there is a strangeness to the question "so why don't we run the machine for ourselves, rather than a ruling class?"  Strangeness in that mathematically there is no reason for society to be the way it is, but yet, here it is.

Spoiler: * (click to show/hide)
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wierd

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #40873 on: October 25, 2020, 11:04:27 pm »

The issue at hand, is that "White men" is a bogeyman.

99% of white people have vastly more in common with poor black people than they do with the empowered 1% of white people.


The 1% of white people just have preferences in what kind of slave labor they like to keep around, for purely puerile reasons.



This is really about "1%'ers and 99%'ers", but the police departments of the country know who butters their bread, and it is not the 99%.  As such, they enforce the preferences of their masters, drink the coolaid of their masters, and enact the wills of their masters.

And, because they themselves are selected for, based on the preferences of their masters, they tend to over-represent white autocrats.


Poor people like me (my YTD income is about 17k so far. I am clearly overpaid. Obviously.), who just so happen to have a penis, and white skin, have nothing at all to do with the systemic oppression of the nation; I am among the systematically oppressed, and get an epic avalanche of bullshit, hateful, spiteful, and toxic propaganda hurled at me. 

That toxic propaganda comes from BOTH sets of mouthpieces.

The first set are those bloated old rotting corpses in the GOP, like Mich McConnel, who think that poor people like me exist exclusively to make the products he furnishes his multimillion dollar mansion with, but god forbid any of us get healthcare or a living wage, or any kind of actual enfranchisement for the vote. (Seriously, look at how he and his party behave on those issues, and tell me that they want anything other than a decadent social split with them on top, and everyone else under them.)  Those old festering and rotting sacks of skin and shit have been poisoning the religious for over a century, corrupting everything they touch, and turning people against each other so that they self police to sustain that social divide.

The second, are the usurper types in the DNC, who only have power through leveraging the perpetual outrage of the masses.  This is why despite being in power at least 5 times in my lifetime, they have consistently failed to make any actual progress on any of the social issues they derive their power from:  Equal rights for women and minorities, Better social mobility for everyone, healthcare that actually works and is not a blank check to insurance and drug companies, et al.  They spread this "White men == SCUM!" wedge, because it makes the world into "Black and white" sharp contrasts, that they can then use to foment outrage that they can ride into office, and damn what it does to the rest of us.

The problem is not "White men".

The problem is RICH, OBSTINATE, and ABUSIVE FUCKS.


Evil police, that abuse people, essentially steal anything not nailed down to enrich themselves and the political class, and shoot people as soon as look at them?  It's because of the RICH, OBSTINATE AND ABUSIVE FUCKS that control, fund, and ideologically inflame them, by giving them some power, and telling them "It's OK to do those things-- It's expected-- It's desirable."


Home owners that refuse to rent to minorities?  Again, because of the RICH, OBSTINATE, and ABUSIVE FUCKS.  Our society holds those old corrupt bags of shit up like they are monuments of virtue; Being rich is a lauded goal! A virtue in and of itself!  The finest people!--- and so, everyone wants to emulate them. (Or at least, those that drink the damn coolaid.  Again, white people get both demonized AND subjected to non-stop propaganda. The home owners that drink that shit up, and take it inside them, become racist fucks themselves, eager and willing to exercise what little power they have to be just like their corrupt, bloated, shitbag masters.)


Kindly-- Just like it is wrong to go around conflating Black person == Nigger,  do not go around conflating White+Male==Shitbag.  I don't call people niggers.  Please don't endlessly conflate that I am a shitbag.  Stop using that rhetoric, and do it yesterday.


Instead, Help me pick up this pitchfork, so we can both skewer the obstinate shitbags ruining everyone's lives for their own sick power games.


That's what really needs to happen.  It will only work with us working together, and realizing that "Hey, they are just like me, just with different skin."


The people we are NOT like, are the rich, obstinate, and abusive shitbags.  They are not our idols; They are our tormentors.

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misko27

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #40874 on: October 25, 2020, 11:07:18 pm »

oh yeah well I'm orthodox so i'm here to get drunk and yell at everyone that they're doing it fucking wrong get the god-damned hell out super heathens.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 02:18:00 am by misko27 »
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