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[NRDL]

Is torturing or eating the sheep better for increasing physical power?

[Kashyyk]

I vote for nomming the sheep, and dominating the sheepdogs with no frills.

[10ebbor10]

Don't use evil, just torture the sheep.

That won't be sufficient to do what you want.

Making a single mildly regenerating zombie cost us 1 power, and those still died when their skull was destroyed. To make a flock of regenerating sheep seems like something that would cost more power than we posses.

Anyway, let's think what we're up against.

Known enemy forces :

64 soldiers
     Includes : Archers
                       Shieldwall
77 monks
     Includes : Martial arts
                       Anti-evil chanting
91 civilians

Known enemy fortifications 
- Main compound ( can be damaged by troll siege)
- Underground tunnels (include spring)
- Granary, Warehouses (accessible by tunnels)
- Outlying buildings (very vulnerable to trolls)

Spoiler: Last battle analysis (click to show/hide)

Ambush :

12 Soldiers vs 36 skeletons : Kill 8 soldiers before enemy escapes (dozens of skeletons lost)
4 soldiers versus 2 brutewolves :  both Brutewolves killed
2 soldiers versus 6 brutewolves : both soldiers killed

Tactical Thoughts : Brutewolves appear to have trouble with armored targets, need overwhelming number
Strategic thoughts : Orders where to crush enemy with overwhelming force, not to feed our forces to them in surviveable chunks. Wights, brutewolves, midnight imps should have been present from the beginning of the fight.

Bombardement :

Rock trolls vs Settlement (11 civilians killed, many injured)

Economic thoughts : 10 physical and 2 mental, but they're reuseable
Tactical thoughts : could have gone better, I guess
Strategic thoughts : Complete failure to attain objective. Actually counterproductive, as it concentrated rather than dividing enemy forces

Thing assault

20 zombies  vs 1 soldier (1 killed, many civilians dead)
20 zombies vs 8 soldier, 5 monks ( 7 soldiers, 4 monks dead , 2 zombies killed
18 zombies vs 4 squads ( 1 soldier, all zombies kilked

Economic thoughts : 10 physical, non-reuseable
Tactical thoughts : ineffective against armor, still takes casualties even if they have numerical advantage)
Strategic thoughts : Complete failure to attain objective due to being deployed outside the plan. Even so, I doubt they could have accomplished what they were supposed to do.

Zombie horde

Economic thoughts : Next time, consider priority delivery
Tactical thoughts : Great at being useless corpses
Strategic thoughts : Ensure primary army can be deployed before attacking

Shai Hulud

Shai Hulud vs lots of soldiers, priests and 24 archers ( many civilians killed, 17 soldiers, 19 monks )

Economic though : + 2 Physical , -3 Mental
Tactical thoughts : Don't attack the entire fortress at once. Retreat and attack from a different direction when facing resistance
Strategic thoughts : Only thing that actually worked

So, from this analysis it's rather clear that all the summoned units appear to have been a waste of time and resources.

[Urist Mc Dwarf]

No, I mean just torture the sheep to get some more power. We don't need to make them regenerating yet.

[Parisbre56]

Demonic sheep you say?

Anyway, we've got mesmerism and dogs, they cost nothing to use. Use them to drive a herd of sheep into their fortress. The zombies will be strapped under the sheep and/or following behind them, using them as literal meatshields.

Better yet, cover the sheep in oil or something and then set the sheep on fire and then have them stampede in there before the zombies. Zombies don't need to breathe, so they don't care about the smoke.

[Urist Mc Dwarf]

Demonic sheep you say?

Anyway, we've got mesmerism and dogs, they cost nothing to use. Use them to drive a herd of sheep into their fortress. The zombies will be strapped under the sheep and/or following behind them, using them as literal meatshields.

Better yet, cover the sheep in oil or something and then set the sheep on fire and then have them stampede in there before the zombies. Zombies don't need to breathe, so they don't care about the smoke.

+1 to this

[Strongpoint]

Again, -1 to everything that tries to assault their fortress. Our army is  weaker. We should avoid any decisive battle not provoke it

-1 to spending our power on minions because we need or power for the battle

[wilsonns]

We should rely on finesse and cunning rather than brute force. Instead of spending our precious essence on useless summons, let's put our minions to work to build some siege machinery,use some expendable units to sneak into the fort to do some horrible stuff (murder, rape, corruption) to weaken their morale as we prepare our full attack.
Also, we should plan more battle forms for different situations and claim for ourselves the title of "Shapeshifter"

[Parisbre56]

Actually, trying to use finesse and cunning is what got us in this mess in the first place and using brute force and overwhelming numbers was the only thing that resulted in any noticeable damage to the enemy. Perhaps what you mean to say is "we should use better finesse and cunning".

[wilsonns]

Haha
I really didn't see it as finesse or cunning at all. However, from now on, at leaat we got a lesson about how to NOT spend our might in vain.
The trolls were quite cool and useful, but the zombies weren't that cool from the begining.
Zombies are, by rule, cannon fodder to tire or frighten the enemy before we send our more powerful and useful units, so it's not right to invest our power in them.

[NUKE9.13]

Boy, you people were obsessed with sheep there for a while.
...
Anyway. Any chance we might sort of move towards a consensus? (preferably one that isn't two thousand words)

[Strongpoint]

Haha
I really didn't see it as finesse or cunning at all. However, from now on, at leaat we got a lesson about how to NOT spend our might in vain.
The trolls were quite cool and useful, but the zombies weren't that cool from the begining.
Zombies are, by rule, cannon fodder to tire or frighten the enemy before we send our more powerful and useful units, so it's not right to invest our power in them.

No, the lesson is > when you buff\create some minions try to include an accurate description.

Boy, you people were obsessed with sheep there for a while.
...
Anyway. Any chance we might sort of move towards a consensus? (preferably one that isn't two thousand words)

your demands.... Will three thousands be enough?

[10ebbor10]

Spoiler: Words (click to show/hide)

Anyway, I made a revision of Strongpoint's plan.

1) Use our demonic strength to maintain fear in their minds. Encourage betrayal
2) If we can do it with  only minor investment of our power and from the safe distance > raise their fallen comrades as zombies. Not for real impact effectiveness but to force them to kill their own friends
3) Our undead horde should stop hiding. In fact, they should do the exact opposite. Malkus must find a way to make it look like we have way more than few hundreds of undead. The undead will be placed in such way that it looks as if they can storm the fortress at any moment;
4) Mkilizk, Brutewolves and Wolfmaster should fill the air with howling. Again, enemy must be sure that they face way more than few wolves. Also, they should  participate in the sheep plan See sheep plan
5) Imps, spectres, traitors should do small scale harassment attacks retreating at any real resistance. Setting things on fire, damaging\destroying bridges, killing lone soldiers, scaring sheep and other livestock, doing various acts of sabotage.  It is totally fine if we lose some spectres or imps. Discovered traitors don't bother us either because if they will be captured this will create a sweet distrust among their forces. Take the opportunity to loot the warehouses, they may contain usefull stuff for our forces  and are probably not well guarded
6) Rock trolls should keep throwing rocks from from afar. Target priorities will be the skybridges, seperating the main compound from the rest of the fortress
7) Should the enemy try to break through and attack our undead horde let Malkus lead the army and enter the combat after roughly half of our zombies and skeletons are destroyed.
In person, reuse the worm form to execute a series of smash and grab attacks. Smash the underground spring (check first if it isn't holy or something), grab the enemy leadership, collapse their ways out of the compound, consume the sleeping rooms, that kind of stuff. Emphasis on smash and grab, don't get bogged down. We want the enemy to feel fear if they see us retreat, because that means they no longer know where we are and we could strike at any moment.


[spoiler=Sheep plan]
With much outlying village destroyed in the siege, and the shepherds hiding in the main compound, it's likely that the sheep flocks and dogs are relatively unguarded. Besides, logically most of the flock would be rather far away from the compound at any point in time, because they need to graze to eat and any decent size flock would consume everything near the city in short time.

Using spectres to scare the flocks away from the village, and the Wolfmaster to incentivize the Dog's natural instinct to herd the flocks, it should be possible to push them into a place away from the shepherd where they can be fully taken over by the Wolfmaster. Any particularly stubborn shepherd can be dealt with by the Brutewolves.
We can then slaughter most of the sheep as a huge offering, replacing quality of the sacrifice with quantity. Whatever trickle of evil comes from that should be used to enhance the hunting dogs. The rest can be lit on fire and made to rampage into the city.

Addition : In the event of the enemy attempting to attack the rock trolls, have them be defended by the Wights and Imps. Continuing bombardement as they slowly retreat up the mountain. Once the enemy is a decent distance from their fortress, intervene ourselves.


[/quote][/spoiler]

This is the one I and Strongpoint supported, last time I checked. Everyone else became distracted by the sheep though.

[omada]

Spoiler: Words (click to show/hide)

Anyway, I made a revision of Strongpoint's plan.

1) Use our demonic strength to maintain fear in their minds. Encourage betrayal
2) If we can do it with  only minor investment of our power and from the safe distance > raise their fallen comrades as zombies. Not for real impact effectiveness but to force them to kill their own friends
3) Our undead horde should stop hiding. In fact, they should do the exact opposite. Malkus must find a way to make it look like we have way more than few hundreds of undead. The undead will be placed in such way that it looks as if they can storm the fortress at any moment;
4) Mkilizk, Brutewolves and Wolfmaster should fill the air with howling. Again, enemy must be sure that they face way more than few wolves. Also, they should  participate in the sheep plan See sheep plan
5) Imps, spectres, traitors should do small scale harassment attacks retreating at any real resistance. Setting things on fire, damaging\destroying bridges, killing lone soldiers, scaring sheep and other livestock, doing various acts of sabotage.  It is totally fine if we lose some spectres or imps. Discovered traitors don't bother us either because if they will be captured this will create a sweet distrust among their forces. Take the opportunity to loot the warehouses, they may contain usefull stuff for our forces  and are probably not well guarded
6) Rock trolls should keep throwing rocks from from afar. Target priorities will be the skybridges, seperating the main compound from the rest of the fortress
7) Should the enemy try to break through and attack our undead horde let Malkus lead the army and enter the combat after roughly half of our zombies and skeletons are destroyed.
In person, reuse the worm form to execute a series of smash and grab attacks. Smash the underground spring (check first if it isn't holy or something), grab the enemy leadership, collapse their ways out of the compound, consume the sleeping rooms, that kind of stuff. Emphasis on smash and grab, don't get bogged down. We want the enemy to feel fear if they see us retreat, because that means they no longer know where we are and we could strike at any moment.


[spoiler=Sheep plan]
With much outlying village destroyed in the siege, and the shepherds hiding in the main compound, it's likely that the sheep flocks and dogs are relatively unguarded. Besides, logically most of the flock would be rather far away from the compound at any point in time, because they need to graze to eat and any decent size flock would consume everything near the city in short time.

Using spectres to scare the flocks away from the village, and the Wolfmaster to incentivize the Dog's natural instinct to herd the flocks, it should be possible to push them into a place away from the shepherd where they can be fully taken over by the Wolfmaster. Any particularly stubborn shepherd can be dealt with by the Brutewolves.
We can then slaughter most of the sheep as a huge offering, replacing quality of the sacrifice with quantity. Whatever trickle of evil comes from that should be used to enhance the hunting dogs. The rest can be lit on fire and made to rampage into the city.

Addition : In the event of the enemy attempting to attack the rock trolls, have them be defended by the Wights and Imps. Continuing bombardement as they slowly retreat up the mountain. Once the enemy is a decent distance from their fortress, intervene ourselves.

[/spoiler]

This is the one I and Strongpoint supported, last time I checked. Everyone else became distracted by the sheep though.
[/quote]
+1

[Urist Mc Dwarf]

Spoiler: Words (click to show/hide)

Anyway, I made a revision of Strongpoint's plan.

1) Use our demonic strength to maintain fear in their minds. Encourage betrayal
2) If we can do it with  only minor investment of our power and from the safe distance > raise their fallen comrades as zombies. Not for real impact effectiveness but to force them to kill their own friends
3) Our undead horde should stop hiding. In fact, they should do the exact opposite. Malkus must find a way to make it look like we have way more than few hundreds of undead. The undead will be placed in such way that it looks as if they can storm the fortress at any moment;
4) Mkilizk, Brutewolves and Wolfmaster should fill the air with howling. Again, enemy must be sure that they face way more than few wolves. Also, they should  participate in the sheep plan See sheep plan
5) Imps, spectres, traitors should do small scale harassment attacks retreating at any real resistance. Setting things on fire, damaging\destroying bridges, killing lone soldiers, scaring sheep and other livestock, doing various acts of sabotage.  It is totally fine if we lose some spectres or imps. Discovered traitors don't bother us either because if they will be captured this will create a sweet distrust among their forces. Take the opportunity to loot the warehouses, they may contain usefull stuff for our forces  and are probably not well guarded
6) Rock trolls should keep throwing rocks from from afar. Target priorities will be the skybridges, seperating the main compound from the rest of the fortress
7) Should the enemy try to break through and attack our undead horde let Malkus lead the army and enter the combat after roughly half of our zombies and skeletons are destroyed.
In person, reuse the worm form to execute a series of smash and grab attacks. Smash the underground spring (check first if it isn't holy or something), grab the enemy leadership, collapse their ways out of the compound, consume the sleeping rooms, that kind of stuff. Emphasis on smash and grab, don't get bogged down. We want the enemy to feel fear if they see us retreat, because that means they no longer know where we are and we could strike at any moment.


[spoiler=Sheep plan]
With much outlying village destroyed in the siege, and the shepherds hiding in the main compound, it's likely that the sheep flocks and dogs are relatively unguarded. Besides, logically most of the flock would be rather far away from the compound at any point in time, because they need to graze to eat and any decent size flock would consume everything near the city in short time.

Using spectres to scare the flocks away from the village, and the Wolfmaster to incentivize the Dog's natural instinct to herd the flocks, it should be possible to push them into a place away from the shepherd where they can be fully taken over by the Wolfmaster. Any particularly stubborn shepherd can be dealt with by the Brutewolves.
We can then slaughter most of the sheep as a huge offering, replacing quality of the sacrifice with quantity. Whatever trickle of evil comes from that should be used to enhance the hunting dogs. The rest can be lit on fire and made to rampage into the city.

Addition : In the event of the enemy attempting to attack the rock trolls, have them be defended by the Wights and Imps. Continuing bombardement as they slowly retreat up the mountain. Once the enemy is a decent distance from their fortress, intervene ourselves.

[/spoiler]

This is the one I and Strongpoint supported, last time I checked. Everyone else became distracted by the sheep though.

+1
[/quote]
+1 sure.