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[fillipk]

fillipk: for the purposes of a mafia NK, is a specific player chosen to perform it, or is the team as a whole responsible for the NK.

Specific player

[juicebox]

OSG: Give me your top scumpicks and why

GA: Same as above, and also, why shouldn't we lynch you today?

OSG and GA: missed something

Tiruin:

However spending the lynch on someone else--especially a VAGUELY claimed Lyncher, and having either Jack or TMS/Bear inspect GA.

Thoughts, everyone?

I can't really make sense of this. It seems like you're asking whether we should lynch GA or inspect him, so I'll give you my thoughts on that. Right now I'm leaning towards lynching GA, especially after his most recent post.

While we're on that subject...

GA:

It has took me some time to decide whether I should continue with a gambit I planned; but I don't think I can fool scum into thinking that my target is still alive, so that I could bait them into revealing themselves for me.
I was purposely being vague about who my target was, just in case scum decided to shoot him. As such, I would like to say that my wincon has changed to lynching the person who killed my target.

Why not? Doesn't seem to me like it would be that hard to convince scum of that. I assumed that your target was still alive until you posted that.

Tiruin: Personally, I'm beginning to think that all of the townie's inspection results are unreliable. I am thinking that you are probably insane. consider that fillipk decided to just ignore this question.

fillipk: If a third party was inspected by a completely sane, unmodified standard cop, what result would be given?  (General "third party", specific third party, "scum", "mafia", etc.)
Also, suppose you were using a standardish inspect sanity system (as decribed here) in this game.  How would insane cops handle third party inspects?
Finally, do you consider paranoid and naive cops, as described in the previously linked article, to be a mechanic not suitable for non-bastard games?  How about random cops?

1. Third Party
2. NA
3. I would use them as a counterbalance for a powerful town, even in a non-bastard game.
4. Yes

Of course, if you are insane, then TDS must be scum.
I think that it is likely we have a TDS/BHK mafia pairing.
I think OSG, Jack AT, Tiruin, and juicebox are town.
I'm not sure on bearshogun, but I think the other two know more than they let on.

fillipk: for the purposes of a mafia NK, is a specific player chosen to perform it, or is the team as a whole responsible for the NK.

1. Deflection much?
2. There's still a pretty good chance that Tiruin is sane.
3. What makes you think that TDS or BHK is hiding something?
3b. Also, I kinda doubt BHK is scum, conidering Jack's and my inspect results
4. I'm pretty sure that it's always a specific person who does the mafia NK.,

[Tiruin]

Tiruin: Personally, I'm beginning to think that all of the townie's inspection results are unreliable. I am thinking that you are probably insane. consider that fillipk decided to just ignore this question.

fillipk: If a third party was inspected by a completely sane, unmodified standard cop, what result would be given?  (General "third party", specific third party, "scum", "mafia", etc.)
Also, suppose you were using a standardish inspect sanity system (as decribed here) in this game.  How would insane cops handle third party inspects?
Finally, do you consider paranoid and naive cops, as described in the previously linked article, to be a mechanic not suitable for non-bastard games?  How about random cops?

1. Third Party
2. NA
3. I would use them as a counterbalance for a powerful town, even in a non-bastard game.
4. Yes

Of course, if you are insane, then TDS must be scum.
I think that it is likely we have a TDS/BHK mafia pairing.
I think OSG, Jack AT, Tiruin, and juicebox are town.
I'm not sure on bearshogun, but I think the other two know more than they let on.

Then what SHOULD you have inspected as?
I personally find the CLAIMED_BY_INTENT LYNCHER coming up as MAFIA coming up without any aid to their own objective other than putting the notion out in public very strange.
On #2, there are situations where the GM/Mod cannot or will not even answer questions at all because the 'written lack' or such of an answer CAN entail an answer in itself

And...it may not follow that way about TDS--that if such is the case, it may seem (and personally, it may more likely seem) like a deflective attack based on personal reasoning.
...So why TDS?

PFP

Tiruin:

However spending the lynch on someone else--especially a VAGUELY claimed Lyncher, and having either Jack or TMS/Bear inspect GA.

Thoughts, everyone?

I can't really make sense of this. It seems like you're asking whether we should lynch GA or inspect him, so I'll give you my thoughts on that. Right now I'm leaning towards lynching GA, especially after his most recent post.

Yes
That's because back then--my thoughts are on 'this is weird behavior for them o_O' until the notion followed that mayhap, this person could be approaching a meek-like playstyle rather than an avoidant one.

[Jack A T]

Hm.

GayArchaea: Please provide non-inspect evidence against TDS and non-inspect evidence against BHK.  Please also explain why those you think are town are likely town.

fillipk: Let's ask a different question: suppose an insane cop inspected a lyncher.  What result would they get?  Would there be a consistent result?

[fillipk]

fillipk: Let's ask a different question: suppose an insane cop inspected a lyncher.  What result would they get?  Would there be a consistent result?

There would be a consistent result, if the Lyncher's target was town you would get a town result.   Anything else, a mafia result.

Well I feel like editing my posts now but I said I wouldn't lie to you so I'm not changing anything.  I promise.

[Tiruin]

PFP

fillipk: Let's ask a different question: suppose an insane cop inspected a lyncher.  What result would they get?  Would there be a consistent result?

There would be a consistent result, if the Lyncher's target was town you would get a town result.   Anything else, a mafia result.

Say that again?

FILLIPK:
> May we know the details of a Lyncher Role in this game setting?
> You specified 'target'. I will call out FoU's role as baseline towards mine--and ask this: does Read Mind follow the 'thoughts of the target', specifically what they're thinking instead?

GA: Speak about your hindrance and the contrast on why you claimed in the first place, please.

E: I didn't want to add another post. Also tired.

[TheDarkStar]

FILLIPK:
> May we know the details of a Lyncher Role in this game setting?
> You specified 'target'. I will call out FoU's role as baseline towards mine--and ask this: does Read Mind follow the 'thoughts of the target', specifically what they're thinking instead?

 

Interesting idea. If so, then we would have to deal with a chain of people seeing the alignment of the people that their target sees. And there might be no insane cops.


GA: I'm also interested in seeing what you have to say about why me and BHK are scummy beyond arbitrarily deciding to trust/distrust certain cop results.

[Jack A T]

Things begin to make sense.

I'll wait for Fillipk's answer to Tiruin's questions before continuing, but sanity just got a substantial boost as our probable problem, and the pieces fit together with it in place.

GayArchaea: Your target was Deus Asmoth, yes?

[fillipk]

fillipk: Let's ask a different question: suppose an insane cop inspected a lyncher.  What result would they get?  Would there be a consistent result?

There would be a consistent result, if the Lyncher's target was town you would get a town result.   Anything else, a mafia result.

Say that again?

Sure 
if the Lyncher's target was town you would get a town result.  Anything else, a mafia result.

FILLIPK:
> May we know the details of a Lyncher Role in this game setting?
> You specified 'target'. I will call out FoU's role as baseline towards mine--and ask this: does Read Mind follow the 'thoughts of the target', specifically what they're thinking instead?

1.They want to get someone lynched
2.No you can't mess with the results of the inspection by pming me that you want to think a certain way, and no they aren't random

[Tiruin]

O
.
.
.
K.

...I'm seeing...many things there.
Like sarcasm. But yeah. Things.
GA: Please answer truthfully--are you a Godfather (ie You knowingly turn up as Mafia upon (inspection/{synonym to inspection})?

PFP

[fillipk]

"Its been a while since I told you who thinks what.

Votecount

GayArchea: (2) Tiruin, Juicebox

5 to hammer

[Jack A T]

And suddenly everything starts to fall together.

Let's assume sanity for a second.  I see little reason why not: in addition to sanity being the standard structural inspect-damager, fillipk has clearly put some thought into how it works in this game (see the details about insane cops inspecting lynchers, as well as the careful Not Applicable given before), and doesn't seem remotely prepared for alternatives that have been proposed.

With a sanity system, Tiruin is either sane or insane.  She has two different results, so paranoid and naive are ruled out, and there are no random cops.

Insane aligns perfectly with GA's claim, in a way that was a surprise to everyone.  GA's claimed target appears to have been Deus Asmoth, and is dead.  His target is now, according to him, a member of the Mafia.  By his claims today, Tiruin's N2 inspect was done with him targeting a non-townie (either Deus, or, if GA's target was actually Griffinpup, the mafia), thus giving a mafia result.

Note that GA did not elicit the info I elicited about insane inspections of lynchers, and that he instead pointed to fillipk's Not Applicable answer to my first insane third party inspect question.  As the new information is a far stronger defence for him, the fact that he didn't try to obtain it indicates he did not know about it (that is, he did not ask about it privately before making his claims today).  I doubt anyone could have predicted this particular handling of lyncher inspects.

OSG's inspect indicated that GA has a one-shot autorevive, a power that is useful for town and third parties, but extremely useful for scum.  Tough to balance it for scum, particularly in a lynch-puzzle-based game like this.  Unless OSG has a kill or something, we probably don't have any counter to a scum autorevive.  Add the way I caught GA out as a third party ("scilians"), and the Insane Tiruin theory is left fitting the evidence quite well.

I'll need to look through both GA's and TDS's activities in depth (hence the lack of vote), but I'm leaning quite a bit towards Tiruin being insane.

TDS: Do you see anything wrong with my logic about GA?  If so, what?

Everyone: What evidence, if any, exists that points to a structural inspection problem other than sanity?

[GayArchaea]

GayArchaea: Your target was Deus Asmoth, yes?

Yes.
Also, I'd like to point out that whenever I mentioned something about a vigilante, I was assuming that Deus Asmoth was in fact, a vigilante.


For BHK, I'd like to point out that, on the start of Day 2, during the rapid cop inspections, he decided to post this:

Heh. Multi-cop setup, at least two with the same cop power name and flavour.  Excellent.

And you think that it'd be easy that we caught scum red handed just like that? If there are multiple cops, there's a gimmick, I assure you.
Still, let's deal with Tiruin out of safety and then see if we can figure out more about it.

I'd like to point out that BHK didn't say he was a cop yet, however almost 30 minutes later, Fallacy stated in his first post of the day:

You have got to be kidding me.

I'm a cop too. I inspected Jack and got mafia result.

At this point, with this many cop claims and Griffinpup's flip, I'm fairly certain that there are some sanity options.

To which BHK responded around five minutes later:

I'm also a cop, got town on OSG.

Here is where BHK's response to the Tiruin vote is. Although, I'd like to say that BHK never did bother to unvote again.
I'd like to point out that in Day 1: TDS wanted the day to end sooner, by having other people come up with their ideas; TDS suggested a time limit on day 1, although I'll admit that I was sorta of getting tired of the day dragging on, and that Fallacy suggested he was open to a No-lynch. For Day 2:TDS voted for a no-lynch right after he revealed his inspects, which although I'll admit I did vote for a no-lynch that day, I didn't think it was in the town's interest to do so. He also wanted to get the day over with as well,

I'll admit that this might've been unsatisfactory, but These are my strongest suspicions.
On those who I think are town, I think I decided to more rely on Jack AT, after the stenography incident, (which I think I was paranoid over). and I was persuaded that Tiruin acted town-like. I believe that OSG was town right after he claimed that I revived out of hatred, and also the fact that he was rather dogged on me throughout the day. On juicebox, I'm not as certain, but he does seem to be asking more questions 

GA: Please answer truthfully--are you a Godfather (ie You knowingly turn up as Mafia upon (inspection/{synonym to inspection})?

No.

GA: Speak about your hindrance and the contrast on why you claimed in the first place, please.

There never was a hindrance. I deliberately chose not to reveal who my target was because if I did, I believe the mafia would've chosen not to shoot him, and also because I believed that DA was town.

GA: I'm also interested in seeing what you have to say about why me and BHK are scummy beyond arbitrarily deciding to trust/distrust certain cop results.

Although I might've said the town's results were unreliable, I should've said that those whom I don't think are scum, do not have inspection results that are sane.
I might as well give out what I think are their sanity, given that I can still revive after today's lynch.
Tiruin: (TDS:Town) (GA:Mafia) I believe that Tiruin's sanity is Insane, since I still believe that I'm a Lyncher.
Jack AT: (Tiruin:Mafia) (BHK:Mafia) I believe that Jack AT is paranoid, although the possibility still exists that he could be insane.
juicebox: (Fallacy:Mafia) (BHK:Mafia) I believe that juicebox is paranoid, although he could be insane.
TMS/bear: (Tiruin:Mafia) (BHK:Mafia) I believe that their sanity is paranoid, although he could be insane.
Fallacy: (JackAT:Mafia) I believe that he could be insane or paranoid.
Griffinpup: I believe that he was a cop.

For the two people I suspect of being scum, It could be possible that they could have some sort of mind read, in order to figure out who is a third party.
I do think that they might just be trying to appear as sane.

[TheDarkStar]

GA:

Two things. First, if you are currently being read as scum, then your target must be mafia (assuming Tiruin is sane, which I know to be true because I'm town and I hope you also see) and revealing who that is in the best interest of the town. Second, you missed my inspection results - Fallacy(Town) and Tiruin(Town). So I'm either sane or naive.


Currently, I think that Tiruin and Jack are town. I mostly believe GA's claim. This leaves bear, OSG, BHK, and juicebox. Of these, OSG has a claim that I mostly believe (7 powers), and BHK is scum only if every one of the three people who checked him is paranoid (not just insane) which is unlikely. It appears bear and juicebox are scum... except that means that they both reported paranoid inspections of BHK, which would be an odd play for scum. One might be scum, but that means that other must be OSG or BHK. I'm leaning towards OSG as mafia JOAT + 1 of bear/juicebox because so many people who are either insane or paranoid got a mafia result for BHK. Odds are that at least one person who checked BHK is insane but not paranoid.

OSG: What did you do last night?

[Tiruin]

...I am busy pushing the envelope of the doubt here with GA :v

For BHK, I'd like to point out that, on the start of Day 2, during the rapid cop inspections, he decided to post this:[...]

This wording gave me 2 primary impressions:
1. You've a lead and you're going on it.
2. You're diverting attention because of the reasoning within your lead--implicitly.
Both of these are incomplete because as you would note in BHK's notes given your partial accounting of his posts, he explicitly made it clear that he has done something about that. So either I have the impression that you have partly done your reasoning fleshed out and made an honest mistake...OR, you're capitalizing on a slip you made earlier and are attacking a player who can, currently, reasonably, not defend himself.

GayArchaea: Your target was Deus Asmoth, yes?

Yes.
Also, I'd like to point out that whenever I mentioned something about a vigilante, I was assuming that Deus Asmoth was in fact, a vigilante.

I have bridged a gap in reasoning and semantic connection in orange, above. I wish to understand what your point is in connecting those two ideas.

GA: Speak about your hindrance and the contrast on why you claimed in the first place, please.

There never was a hindrance. I deliberately chose not to reveal who my target was because if I did, I believe the mafia would've chosen not to shoot him, and also because I believed that DA was town.

Especially here.
Especially with all these arcing tangents.
I am very wary with your seeming prescience of 'the Mafia' targeting this person.
BECAUSE THE LYNCHER IS SUPPOSED TO HAVE THE TARGET BEING LYNCHED AND NOT KILLED. So the second sentence is contradictory by its base existence.
And the last part (the one with ", and also because") is implying your target is DA.
So either you may be very nervous or anxious and skipping notes, or you just typed off the last part because you're working with thoughts-on-the-run.

Detail your target now. Please.