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Author Topic: Mind Reading Mafia Game Over, No One Won.  (Read 95958 times)

FallacyofUrist

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Re: Mind Reading Mafia (10/11) Day 2 well here's your info
« Reply #210 on: September 03, 2016, 08:22:18 pm »

This is clearly not town play - you are trying to create a case to match a vote, rather than the other way around. Why?

Chain of stuff:

It starts with my inspect result on him. Mafia.
Decide to vote for him.
I'm not going at him because of his behavior, but because of my inspect on him and what would happen once he's lynched(my sanity result is narrowed, his inspect may or may not be invalidated).
Because this.
Then I try to build case based on vote, to make it an even better idea.
~~~
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FoU has some twisted role ideas. Screw second-guessing this mechanical garbage spaghetti, I'm basing everything on reads and visible daytime behaviour.

Would you like to play a game of Mafia? The subforum is always open to new players.

juicebox

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Re: Mind Reading Mafia (10/11) Day 2 well here's your info
« Reply #211 on: September 03, 2016, 10:11:30 pm »

Sorry BHK missed your last post. Here's Tiruin's question


BlackHeartKabal: My laziness compels me to ask you the same question as juicebox.
juicebox: Who are the top three players you want to investigate tonight, and for what reasons?
Tiruin - Mafia result, and therefore a prime suspect. Also a convenient sanity test.
TDS - Gut feeling. He strikes me as odd, and I want to satisfy that, but not over actual suspects.
Jack A T - He's too competent at the game to leave alone.
Does the same idea towards me, apply towards Jack?
May I inquire a full-detailed report of your ideas towards the game as it seems like you're busy-busy given the conciseness of your previous posts? :)
Also the next question requires at least two answers:
> Query on TDS--was my action in anyway affecting your ranking of him? If not, why is he up there--and does this gut feeling apply to others of that sort? Could I inquire as to how broad these feelings apply and a clarification on your part?



Also 2. I worded that a bit awkwardly. When I said someone would action him I was referring to you.

This is clearly not town play - you are trying to create a case to match a vote, rather than the other way around. Why?

Chain of stuff:

It starts with my inspect result on him. Mafia.
Decide to vote for him.
I'm not going at him because of his behavior, but because of my inspect on him and what would happen once he's lynched(my sanity result is narrowed, his inspect may or may not be invalidated).
Because this.
Then I try to build case based on vote, to make it an even better idea.
~~~

Except you didn't vote for him, first you voted BHK for his vote on Tiruin, and you didn't move your vote to Jack until it was pointed out that your vote was still on BHK. And what TDS said still stands
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BlackHeartKabal

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Re: Mind Reading Mafia (10/11) Day 2 well here's your info
« Reply #212 on: September 03, 2016, 10:15:37 pm »

Sorry BHK missed your last post. Here's Tiruin's question


BlackHeartKabal: My laziness compels me to ask you the same question as juicebox.
juicebox: Who are the top three players you want to investigate tonight, and for what reasons?
Tiruin - Mafia result, and therefore a prime suspect. Also a convenient sanity test.
TDS - Gut feeling. He strikes me as odd, and I want to satisfy that, but not over actual suspects.
Jack A T - He's too competent at the game to leave alone.
Does the same idea towards me, apply towards Jack?
May I inquire a full-detailed report of your ideas towards the game as it seems like you're busy-busy given the conciseness of your previous posts? :)
Also the next question requires at least two answers:
> Query on TDS--was my action in anyway affecting your ranking of him? If not, why is he up there--and does this gut feeling apply to others of that sort? Could I inquire as to how broad these feelings apply and a clarification on your part?
Right. As to Jack, he's simply overtly competent, whereas to Tiruin their competence isn't the first thing I notice ( the first thing I notice being them being a null tell among null tells ). My idea for the game is simple, either the cops have differing sanity or the mafia team is investigation immune, whether it's a limited ability or no.

Also, what action are you speaking about?
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juicebox

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Re: Mind Reading Mafia (10/11) Day 2 well here's your info
« Reply #213 on: September 03, 2016, 10:28:14 pm »

I was speaking of your inspect.
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BlackHeartKabal

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Re: Mind Reading Mafia (10/11) Day 2 well here's your info
« Reply #214 on: September 03, 2016, 11:36:42 pm »

What about my inspect?
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juicebox

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Re: Mind Reading Mafia (10/11) Day 2 well here's your info
« Reply #215 on: September 04, 2016, 01:39:08 am »

2. The thing is, since you had an inspect, you could be assured that someone would action him during the night. So why make this post?


What I was saying was, since you had an inspect, you knew that you could inspect him N1, which means that there was no reason for you to ask a vig to target him.
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FallacyofUrist

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Re: Mind Reading Mafia (10/11) Day 2 well here's your info
« Reply #216 on: September 04, 2016, 04:53:22 pm »

Except you didn't vote for him, first you voted BHK for his vote on Tiruin, and you didn't move your vote to Jack until it was pointed out that your vote was still on BHK.

Yes. I didn't realize that I should have been voting Jack, but was voting BHK instead.
As seen here.

Ah, my mistake. Jack A T.
~~~
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FoU has some twisted role ideas. Screw second-guessing this mechanical garbage spaghetti, I'm basing everything on reads and visible daytime behaviour.

Would you like to play a game of Mafia? The subforum is always open to new players.

Tiruin

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Re: Mind Reading Mafia (10/11) Day 2 well here's your info
« Reply #217 on: September 04, 2016, 11:23:15 pm »

Except you didn't vote for him, first you voted BHK for his vote on Tiruin, and you didn't move your vote to Jack until it was pointed out that your vote was still on BHK.

Yes. I didn't realize that I should have been voting Jack, but was voting BHK instead.
As seen here.

Ah, my mistake. Jack A T.
~~~
May I ask your viewpoint in contrast to Jack's and TMS' viewpoint? What is your insight on the general goings-on of today?

Also I'm sticking with my vote on OSG, and/or willing to move it to outliers since it seems difficult to extrapolate or specify from the cop-labyrinth here >_> As in I'm more focused onto GA and OSG because of how...strange they seem.

OSG: Summarize your notes on GA
Everyone: Plan for tonight?
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FallacyofUrist

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Re: Mind Reading Mafia (10/11) Day 2 well here's your info
« Reply #218 on: September 05, 2016, 08:27:40 am »

May I ask your viewpoint in contrast to Jack's and TMS' viewpoint? What is your insight on the general goings-on of today?
Beyond the cop-bomb...

Basically, what happened was an exchange between you and Jack... then Jack switching his focus to me and launching an all-out-attack. It's my suspicion that some players are using the draw on attention generated by that to lurk, actively or passively. It's also my suspicion that he's formed something of a bandwagon on me, and at least one scum player will end up being found to be voting me later.

Everyone: Plan for tonight?
I request that everybody submit their planned actions in terms of chunks of 3 people, only one of which they will target. If there's a framer, he/she will not be happy about that. Which is good.

Me, assuming I survive this day: (Jack A T(let's see if my result changes), OSG(seven powers, mate), The Moonlit Shadow(... oddness. See below.))

I would like someone to inspect me tonight, by the way.

TDS, but I don't feel like using my inspect tonight.
FoU: I will not say anything or answer any questions about this.
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FoU has some twisted role ideas. Screw second-guessing this mechanical garbage spaghetti, I'm basing everything on reads and visible daytime behaviour.

Would you like to play a game of Mafia? The subforum is always open to new players.

TheDarkStar

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Re: Mind Reading Mafia (10/11) Day 2 well here's your info
« Reply #219 on: September 05, 2016, 10:54:27 am »

My list of planned targets: GA - Because he claims an interesting power (reviving) and I want to know if it's worthwhile to lynch him twice. Jack A T - Competent and very dangerous if scum. Tiruin - I can never read her.

Of course, if FoU turns out to be scum, then my results can't be trusted anyway.
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it happened it happened it happen im so hyped to actually get attacked now

BlackHeartKabal

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Re: Mind Reading Mafia (10/11) Day 2 well here's your info
« Reply #220 on: September 05, 2016, 10:56:06 am »

We could just coordinate. I plan to investigate Tiruin tonight, whether we wish to verify sanity or spread out investigation, it's up to you. I'm just stating my intent.
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Jack A T

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Re: Mind Reading Mafia (10/11) Day 2 well here's your info
« Reply #221 on: September 05, 2016, 02:14:18 pm »

I've moved back into campus residence and I've settled down.  Time to get back to playing.

FallacyofUrist, I'd like to talk to you a bit about what your statements today imply about your actions D1.

You have given no behavioural evidence against me today (in fact, you've put more effort into not giving any and justifying not giving any than most people put into giving evidence), and you have made it clear that your vote has nothing to do with my behaviour.  You have repeatedly stated that your sole reason for going after me today is your inspect.  You have established that your cause of suspicion is an inspect result (in this of all games) and that you "are not going at [me] because of [my] behavior."  Even when asked for your case against me, you gave no behavioural evidence and relied solely on your inspect.  So, my behaviour has not contributed to your suspicion of me.

In fact, you have made an amazing admission: you have not seen me do anything you consider scummy:
FoU: [...][2] Has [Jack] actually done anything that you consider scummy?
[2]: No. Not that I've detected, anyway. I'm going off my inspect, thank you.

The following is your claimed cause for inspecting me last night:
I investigated you last night, because you are an experienced player and I wanted to know if you were misguided town or plotting scum against me, my result was you being mafia.
You have been consistent in claiming that you inspected me because I was attacking you D1.  You have not mentioned anything indicating your inspect decision was influenced by evidence of scumhood.

Let's go back to D1.  Specifically, back to when you started the effort to get someone to make a case against me:
Jack A T: Please construct an argument from my perspective on why you and TDS are the scum team.
TheDarkStar: Do you think that from my perspective, it might be a bit suspicious that you and Jack have echoed each other's votes?
Nothing significant changed about the behaviour of TDS and I after this point D1: TDS did little more and I was on vacation.
You have made it quite clear that you have never seen anything scummy from me.  In addition, your inspect was not based on scummy behaviour, but just on the fact that I was attacking you.  With that in mind, these questions (particularly the second) stand out.

You asked me for a case against TDS and I, but not because you saw me do anything scummy.  You asked TDS about how suspicious it was that we voted for the same people twice (with my vote being second both times, I will note), but deny having ever seen me act scummily.

Hm.  I wonder what could lead you to try to get your two assailants, one of whom you've stated you've not seen any scummy behaviour from, to go after an associational tell that you deny was a scumtell (at least for the second voter).  I wonder why you wanted a case constructed against an attacker you saw no scummy behaviour from.

So, Fallacy, would it be accurate to characterize these questions as an effort to protect yourself from TDS and I first and foremost, and not as an effort to pursue your suspects?  If not, why did you ask the questions?
Furthermore, would it be accurate to say that your two references today to background lurkers were made in significant part to protect yourself?

Unless plans change my plans, I intend to inspect one of the non-cops (they stick out) or juicebox (when inspects start making sense, this may really help).  I do not intend to lean much on my inspects until I can make sense of them.  With the obvious structural inspection issues, this cop-saturated game should be pretty classic-scumhunting-focused for a while, at least in theory (though practice is a different matter).
My cop comments a bit earlier still largely apply.
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FUCK YOU JACK
Quote from: Urist Imiknorris, Witches' Coven 2 Elfchat
YOU TRAITOROUS SWINE.
Screw you, Jack.

juicebox

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Re: Mind Reading Mafia (10/11) Day 2 well here's your info
« Reply #222 on: September 06, 2016, 02:05:04 pm »

We could just coordinate. I plan to investigate Tiruin tonight, whether we wish to verify sanity or spread out investigation, it's up to you. I'm just stating my intent.

Yes I'd like to coordinate inspects also. I'd like to investigate with Jack, since we both got scum insoects. I also think that TDS should inspect with Tiruin, and TMS with Fallacy, if he survives. That does leave you as the odd man out, but you could inspect with TDS and Tiruin.
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Deus Asmoth

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Re: Mind Reading Mafia (10/11) Day 2 well here's your info
« Reply #223 on: September 06, 2016, 05:43:25 pm »

Any reason why you're pairing the people who got identical results rather than different ones?
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juicebox

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Re: Mind Reading Mafia (10/11) Day 2 well here's your info
« Reply #224 on: September 06, 2016, 08:34:12 pm »

I just picked that way because it seemed like the best way to confirm to me at the time. I did take time to compare the two and here's what I found
Spoiler: Identical results (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Different results (click to show/hide)

Well as you can see, unless we get a confirm from a lynch, none of the results will be certain, but we still get more concrete results if people with the same result inspect

fillipk votecount please

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