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Author Topic: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: T+0  (Read 1395825 times)

LoSboccacc

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #15840 on: December 17, 2016, 07:36:20 am »

FBI is now agreeing with CIA that it was Russia who has elected Donald Trump for POTUS.

Meanwhile, Obama desperately tries to scare Russia off by making threats, which sound pretty fucking hollow after nearly a decade of Obama-policy of appeasement and red-lines.

please

Quote
“Earlier this week, I met separately with FBI [Director] James Comey and DNI Jim Clapper,
and there is strong consensus among us on the scope, nature,
and intent of Russian interference in our presidential election,”
Brennan said, according to U.S. officials who have seen the message."


this is 2016, we should step the verification bar a little higher than 'someone saw a message'
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McTraveller

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #15841 on: December 17, 2016, 07:41:12 am »

FBI is now agreeing with CIA that it was Russia who has elected Donald Trump for POTUS.
The actual headline is "FBI in agreement with CIA that Russia aimed to help Trump win White House" which is a very different thing.
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LoSboccacc

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #15842 on: December 17, 2016, 07:44:35 am »

FBI is now agreeing with CIA that it was Russia who has elected Donald Trump for POTUS.
The actual headline is "FBI in agreement with CIA that Russia aimed to help Trump win White House" which is a very different thing.

still, according to some officials who saw a message between Brennan and Comey.
They could spend a total 10 seconds to make a statement, but no, it's always mr. anonymous sources eavesdropping something that is not in an official document anywhere.
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Sergarr

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #15843 on: December 17, 2016, 07:47:36 am »

this is 2016, we should step the verification bar a little higher than 'someone saw a message'
you have missed the memo about post-factual politics

what matters is how much the people trust you

fact-checking is for losers like Hillary

FBI is now agreeing with CIA that it was Russia who has elected Donald Trump for POTUS.
The actual headline is "FBI in agreement with CIA that Russia aimed to help Trump win White House" which is a very different thing.
For current USA media, I don't think there is any difference between those two.
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Reelya

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #15844 on: December 17, 2016, 08:14:00 am »

this is 2016, we should step the verification bar a little higher than 'someone saw a message'
What? It was a message sent by the director of the CIA to all personnel in the CIA according to the account. That's a fairly solid source of "the message".
Quote
In the closed-door Senate briefing,
Equally damning, how do we know these "Senators" even exist. I've never met one. I demand proof.

IDK, but I think you're trying to equate Washington Post stating that a public figure made a public announcement to other people in government as "fake news" because you can't prove that the director of the CIA made that statement, you only have the WaPo reporters word for it. And WaPo is so fucking known for just randomly making up fake shit that government people didn't actually say.

Except not. Washington Post is an established newspaper with a reputation. The Fake News is something else entirely - fake newspapers reporting fake events from fake towns with quotes from non-existent residents of the town that doesn't actually exist.:

http://www.snopes.com/fbi-agent-murder-suicide/
Reports that an FBI agent investigating Hillary Clinton's use of a private e-mail server killed himself after murdering his wife are just fake news.

Well, how do they know that's "Fake News". After all anything on the internet is equally valid regardless of source, right? This news must be just as valid as the Washington Post quoting the head of the CIA? Right? No fucking way that's true.

"Denver Guardian" first up, is the "source". But there is no such newspaper. The Denver Post is the actual local paper. Second the event happened in "Walkerville. Maryland". A town that doesn't exist.  FBI agent, Michael Brown who was killed? Non-existent person. Also, the Denver Guardian "newspaper" website where the story was posted has a non-existent street address and non-working links. So when people say "fake news" they're talking fake from top to bottom. Even the publisher is a fake. More info:
http://joeforamerica.com/2016/11/fbi-agent-suspected-hillary-email-leaks-found-dead/
Quote
“Mrs. Brown’s death was caused by a gunshot wound prior to the house fire,” Walkerville Police Chief Pat Frederick said, “while Mr. Brown’s single-bullet head wound appears to have been self-inflicted.”
Except that "Police Chief Pat Frederick" doesn't exist, he's the non-existent police chief of the town that doesn't exist, talking about the non-existent crime, being reported in the fake online newspaper.

And people have a gall to say "Washington post claims that the director of the CIA made such-and-such public statement. FAKE NEWS! He never said it!"

~~~

Just because some random person can put things on the internet that are made up doesn't mean established newspapers are suddenly any more suspect than before.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2016, 08:41:30 am by Reelya »
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misko27

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #15845 on: December 17, 2016, 08:33:51 am »

Just because some random person can put things on the internet that are made up doesn't mean established newspapers are suddenly any more suspect than before.
Ahh but you see, the people who already denounced all established newspapers as shills now see their time to shine.
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LoSboccacc

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #15846 on: December 17, 2016, 08:46:53 am »

What? It was a message sent by the director of the CIA to all personnel in the CIA according to the account. That's a fairly solid source of "the message".

and there's only one anonymous source for it, of course.
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Reelya

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #15847 on: December 17, 2016, 08:49:26 am »

Well the Washington Post is a paper with decades of reputation. Do they normally just make up quotes for lulz? If not, then why would this be the first time?

The point is, the guy quoted is a well known public figure and the head of an important intelligence agency. If someone like the Washington Post was just making shit up about them, they'd be blocked from press conferences and lose all their sources.

What you're insinuating is just irrational given the overall situation. Here's a book that could help with your condition:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: December 17, 2016, 08:53:51 am by Reelya »
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LoSboccacc

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #15848 on: December 17, 2016, 08:53:50 am »

then why would this be the first time?

is it?


The point is, the guy quoted is a well known public figure and the head of an important intelligence agency.

 

nop. guy quoted says saw a message from Comey to Brennan.
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Reelya

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #15849 on: December 17, 2016, 08:54:31 am »

So you have no evidence at all except the hot air blowing out your ass basically.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2016, 08:57:21 am by Reelya »
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LoSboccacc

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #15850 on: December 17, 2016, 09:04:04 am »

So you have no evidence at all except the hot air blowing out your ass basically.


evidence is in the eye of the beholder
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Criptfeind

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #15851 on: December 17, 2016, 09:09:31 am »

Honestly saying meaningless platitudes in response to a challenge against  your line of reasoning is a pretty terrible rhetoric technique. You're not going to approach the truth like this.
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martinuzz

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #15852 on: December 17, 2016, 09:12:33 am »


"Denver Guardian" first up, is the "source". But there is no such newspaper. The Denver Post is the actual local paper. Second the event happened in "Walkerville. Maryland". A town that doesn't exist.  FBI agent, Michael Brown who was killed? Non-existent person. Also, the Denver Guardian "newspaper" website where the story was posted has a non-existent street address and non-working links.
Proof that the FBI censored the existence of a newspaper, bulldozed a town and covered it up, and deleted all proof of existance of Michael Brown, if you ask me.  ;D
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MorleyDev

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #15853 on: December 17, 2016, 09:37:04 am »

Well the Washington Post is a paper with decades of reputation. Do they normally just make up quotes for lulz? If not, then why would this be the first time?

To be fair, newspapers have been struggling with the "internet means instantaneous news is possible" thing. There have been several occasions where reputable newspapers have reporting something which, upon further inspection, turned out to be false because they used a source that used a source that used a source that was actually made-up.

What's that phrase? It's almost always cock-up over conspiracy?
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birdy51

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #15854 on: December 17, 2016, 10:06:01 am »

It's hard to trust anything these days regarding information because nobody is trusting one another. Lay Republicans either believe this is all some conspiracy to get Hillary back into the White House or that even if the Russians did hack, it's a good thing because Lord High Trump is the least crooked candidate. As a vague example, one man posted an article stating that Trump is technically committing treason by calling this hack a good thing. Another man chimed in that the OP was technically committing treason by supporting Hillary Clinton.

I mean, seriously, what the actual fuck is wrong with us? How has this possibly become an acceptable line of rhetoric?!
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