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[Sergarr]

Man you sure have a unfounded belief in the Civilized nature of Israel...

A country so problematic that the ONLY reason it is defend defended by anyone is because of WW2... and otherwise people would dump their butt.

kill Crusaders (i.e. Europeans),

Damn Middle East Defending themselves!

Israel is extremely civilized in the face of having to deal people who regularly just go out and kill them, targeting mostly civilians, preferably sleeping children because military people are actually hard to kill, for the sole crime of being Jews.

[Neonivek]

Israel is extremely civilized in the face of having to deal people who regularly just go out and kill them

Ahh I see, so as long as the other Middle Eastern states have some justification (such as... say... Iran does) they can do whatever they want?

Also remember only 75% of Israel are Jewish.

[smjjames]

Man you sure have a unfounded belief in the Civilized nature of Israel...

A country so problematic that the ONLY reason it is defend defended by anyone is because of WW2... and otherwise people would dump their butt.

kill Crusaders (i.e. Europeans),

Damn Middle East Defending themselves!

Israel is extremely civilized in the face of having to deal people who regularly just go out and kill them, targeting mostly civilians, preferably sleeping children because military people are actually hard to kill, for the sole crime of being Jews.

Doesn't mean that they should resort to the same uncivilized things as what they're fighting against.

Also, the whole settlements stuff mirrors the whole 'invading indengenous populations lands and pushing them into a corner' that we (as in the US, but the West in general has done this as well, 'West' being the European powers) have done in the past. The only difference is that the two sides are on equal technological footing.

I'm not against this discussion, but this really needs to go in the mideast thread, but then again, the mideast is entangled in everything these days.

[Sergarr]

Israel is extremely civilized in the face of having to deal people who regularly just go out and kill them

Ahh I see, so as long as the other Middle Eastern states have some justification (such as... say... Iran does) they can do whatever they want?

Also remember only 75% of Israel are Jewish.

Doesn't mean that they should resort to the same uncivilized things as what they're fighting against.

Also, the whole settlements stuff mirrors the whole 'invading indengenous populations lands and pushing them into a corner' that we (as in the US, but the West in general has done this as well) have done in the past. The only difference is that the two sides are on equal technological footing.

I don't recall Jews going out to stab Palestinians just for the crime of being Palestinians, so no, no they don't resort to the same things as the people they're fighting. As I've said, they're extremely civilized. Mostly because if they weren't, the Arabs would be in the middle of mounting yet another genocidal jihad on Israel, supported by a great deal of so-called "liberals" in Europe/USA, who think that stabbing children is totally fine, because Israel is totes evil guys.

[Neonivek]

I don't recall Jews going out to stab Palestinians just for the crime of being Palestinians

Ohh man... you REALLY shouldn't bet on that... because exactly that has happened... And yes "To children"

Except even better because these weren't just crazy psychos but agents of Israel.

[TempAcc]

Are we going into blood libel territory yet? Seems like we are.

Lemme go fetch my inquisitorial robes, I am half spanish after all.

[smjjames]

Israel is extremely civilized in the face of having to deal people who regularly just go out and kill them

Ahh I see, so as long as the other Middle Eastern states have some justification (such as... say... Iran does) they can do whatever they want?

Also remember only 75% of Israel are Jewish.

Doesn't mean that they should resort to the same uncivilized things as what they're fighting against.

Also, the whole settlements stuff mirrors the whole 'invading indengenous populations lands and pushing them into a corner' that we (as in the US, but the West in general has done this as well) have done in the past. The only difference is that the two sides are on equal technological footing.

I don't recall Jews going out to stab Palestinians just for the crime of being Palestinians, so no, no they don't resort to the same things as the people they're fighting. As I've said, they're extremely civilized. Mostly because if they weren't, the Arabs would be in the middle of mounting yet another genocidal jihad on Israel, supported by a great deal of so-called "liberals" in Europe/USA, who think that stabbing children is totally fine, because Israel is totes evil guys.

violence begets violence begets violence begets violence......

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/10/11/israel-demolishes-home-palestinian-attack-accomplice.html

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20161031-israeli-soldiers-attack-palestinian-schoolchildren/

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2016/country-chapters/israel/palestine

http://mondoweiss.net/2016/11/settlers-palestinians-harvesting/

While the Israelis have certainly had their larger share of violence on them, they too have committed violence on Palestinians, it's a neverending cycle.

[Neonivek]

Are we going into blood libel territory yet? Seems like we are.

Lemme go fetch my inquisitorial robes.

No, it is well known at this point.

Whether or not this act was condoned or encouraged is another question.

[smjjames]

Are we going into blood libel territory yet? Seems like we are.

Lemme go fetch my inquisitorial robes.

No, it is well known at this point.

Whether or not this act was condoned or encouraged is another question.

Both sides have escalated it many times in the past however.

It really is a never ending cycle of violence, and politicians on both sides aren't willing to sit down and say 'lets end this violence'. They have a right to defend themselves and not be genocided, but the same is true of the Palestinians by virtue of being human, the cycle of violence will only end when both sides sit down and say 'we need to stop this violence.'

[hector13]

So uh... how about dem American politics?

[Neonivek]

So uh... how about dem American politics?

This is American Politics oddly enough.

What with the US fighting 2 wars in the Middle East and supporting Israel... AND trying to embargo Iran.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

So uh... how about dem American politics?

This is American Politics oddly enough.

What with the US fighting 2 wars in the Middle East and supporting Israel... AND trying to embargo Iran.

relevant indeed, but hector wants to talk about domestic issues

[hector13]

So uh... how about dem American politics?

This is American Politics oddly enough.

What with the US fighting 2 wars in the Middle East and supporting Israel... AND trying to embargo Iran.

Murdering Palestinian and Israeli children and pondering on what makes something civilized?

So uh... how about dem American politics?

This is American Politics oddly enough.

What with the US fighting 2 wars in the Middle East and supporting Israel... AND trying to embargo Iran.

relevant indeed, but hector wants to talk about domestic issues

Well... more trying to avoid a de-rail that people have to perform some rhetorical sleight if hand in order to say is relevant to the thread

[Vilanat]

I don't recall Jews going out to stab Palestinians just for the crime of being Palestinians

Ohh man... you REALLY shouldn't bet on that... because exactly that has happened... And yes "To children"

Except even better because these weren't just crazy psychos but agents of Israel.

Please. The proportions are such that using them to maintain that point is pure propaganda. The proportions of those that were doing so on Israel's behalf are even slimmer.

[EnigmaticHat]

Israel is extremely civilized in the face of having to deal people who regularly just go out and kill them

Ahh I see, so as long as the other Middle Eastern states have some justification (such as... say... Iran does) they can do whatever they want?

Also remember only 75% of Israel are Jewish.

Doesn't mean that they should resort to the same uncivilized things as what they're fighting against.

Also, the whole settlements stuff mirrors the whole 'invading indengenous populations lands and pushing them into a corner' that we (as in the US, but the West in general has done this as well) have done in the past. The only difference is that the two sides are on equal technological footing.

I don't recall Jews going out to stab Palestinians just for the crime of being Palestinians, so no, no they don't resort to the same things as the people they're fighting. As I've said, they're extremely civilized. Mostly because if they weren't, the Arabs would be in the middle of mounting yet another genocidal jihad on Israel, supported by a great deal of so-called "liberals" in Europe/USA, who think that stabbing children is totally fine, because Israel is totes evil guys.

No, they just shoot Palestinian soccer players in the feet at checkpoints.  That was a weird day.

In all seriousness tho, the amount of Palestinians killed by Israelis far outstrips the amount out of Israelis killed by Palestinians.  And the amount of Palestinian refugees far outstrips either of them by several orders of magnitude.

Like, I get that the two Palestinian governments are both terrorists, but.  That's what fucking happens when you don't let a country have a legit government or a legit military in the first place.  Its not good, but its the logical result of the events that transpired.  You want terrorists, this is how you get terrorists.

Also, American liberals are totally alone in disliking Israel.  That's an annual worldwide poll conducted by BBC and the best source I could find on the matter.  Scroll down 4 pages to see what I'm talking about.