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[Vilanat]

If they don't want a state and peace, then what do they want?

Israel.

Who, the Israelis or Palestinians?

I don't want to call it the source of the problems, but after WWII, the West (in our usual imperialistic map redrawing while giving no crap about the locals) gave the Jews a state of their own (though I hear that it had been heavily lobbied for decades before), just like we can't wipe clean the MidEast's redrawn border and hope for the best, we can't just wipe clean Israels borders and hope for the best.

It just seems like the situation is between a rock and a hard place in all three dimensions, there really isn't much of a good solution or way out of it.

The Cypriot reunification method looks like it could be a path if it works out for Cyprus. But BOTH sides have to be willing to sit down and figure something out. Also, about the only solution that I've heard be tried is a two state solution.

There is a very simply solution. Israel withdraws to 1967 lines. Palestinians get a state, drop the "right of the return" demand and both sides agree to never attack each other again. i give it 2-5 years before palestine turns into Libya/Syria/Yemen/Palestine but well, all we are saying is give peace a chance.

The other solution is either for Israel to move to another place or for the palestinians to move to another place because unification is a death sentence for Israeli jews and Israel as a state.

[SaberToothTiger]

Ok, so if we consider intentional non-voting to be a vote against both the big-party candidates, AND we assume that everyone who failed to vote did so intentionally, then third parties would have gotten 50%+ of the vote.

If people who wanted to send a message of disatisfaction actually did so, they'd make a very major difference! The problem is they've been told that it's 'throwing their vote away,' which one can only do by failing to actually vote.

That would have been great.  I agree, not voting just seems like a waste.  You ought to be there anyway to vote on local issues, and you can abstain from any race you want.

So why not write-in "instant runoff" or "Batman" or even this asshole.  Or the Green party or the Libertarians, possibly giving them a seat at the next debate.
Putting in the effort to vote, but not for either main party, is an ideal protest of the 2-party system. 

Heck I almost voted Green but eh...  I guess I have my head in the sand regarding Clinton's badness

That said, we're actually in the midst of a modern high point in voter turnout. Ever since 2000, voter turnout has been higher than most of the 20th century. For some reason, there was a much higher voter turnout in the 19th century.

That's interesting...  Of course, this particular race was a lot lower than 4 years ago.

Vote Asshole 2020

[Helgoland]

REMOVE HUMMUS remove hummus from this thread. Both kinds, please. If you want to get a thread locked, make one of your own.

[Vilanat]

BUT ISRAEL/JEWS OWNS THE U.S. it is known.

[smjjames]

Hummus isn't even specific to Israel. But anyway, the discussion died off on it's own and we should change the topic anyhow.

Attempt at putting things back ontopic: Federal Court rules the Wisconsin 2011 gerrymander unconstitutional Says court for western Wisconsin, so, not sure if it applies to just western Wisconsin or all of Wisconson. Probably all.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/donald-trump-administration/2016/11/mauricio-macri-argentina-donald-trump-business-231714 Running into some international intrigue already. Even though the source comes from some Argentenian journalist and the guy may be bullshitting, or even opponents of the Argentine president stirring up trouble. But still, even though Trump is still technically a civillian and there isn't neccesarily anything wrong with talking business, the fact remains that he still has massive conflicts of interest and if he did do a business deal for some sort of future political favor, that'll be a big problem. Somewhat more in-depth The Guardian article on that.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

Attempt at putting things back ontopic: Federal Court rules the Wisconsin 2011 gerrymander unconstitutional Says court for western Wisconsin, so, not sure if it applies to just western Wisconsin or all of Wisconson.

FUCK YES

[smjjames]

Attempt at putting things back ontopic: Federal Court rules the Wisconsin 2011 gerrymander unconstitutional Says court for western Wisconsin, so, not sure if it applies to just western Wisconsin or all of Wisconson.

FUCK YES

I doubt it'll make Paul Ryan lose his seat, I looked on Ballotpedia and he did well in his district even before the redistricting.

Also, an update from The Guardian Macri (the Argentenian President) told a Japanese newspaper that he had also talked to Trump's daughter, Ivanka. Anybody want to bet that Trump majorly steps into it and shit hits the fan before he is even inaugurated or very soon afterwards? He's not legally liable yet, but he will be on inauguration day.

[Guardian G.I.]

Spoiler: Would you look at that... (click to show/hide)

[Neonivek]

Look we all knew Trump would change laws to benefit him and his business and he didn't hide it.

So if anything we should consider it Trump's right as the voters specifically voted for it.

[smjjames]

Hm, 'arrested', not 'tried and convicted in a court of law'......

[martinuzz]

Inb4 Trump has the US army liberate the Falklands from UK oppression and give it to Argentina

[TempAcc]

REMOVE HUMMUS remove hummus from this thread. Both kinds, please. If you want to get a thread locked, make one of your own.

REMOVE KEBAB FIRST

[smjjames]

Look we all knew Trump would change laws to benefit him and his business and he didn't hide it.

So if anything we should consider it Trump's right as the voters specifically voted for it.

The problem is that there are laws and ethics rules saying that the president has to separate themselves from any business and financial stuff that they have. If he doesn't, there's going to be lots of claims of conflicts of interests. Do you want him to have a conflict of interest with his business when making a deal with say, Russia?

Every president before him has only had domestic stuff or inheritance, or stocks, nothing even close to the global scale that Trump does business.

[Neonivek]

Those laws don't apply to Donald Trump because conflict of interest was his platform.

If a President said he would murder, and you vote him into office... it isn't a crime for him to murder.

[smjjames]

Point to where conflict of interest was his platform....

It may not be a crime to him, but to the Government, it's still a crime.