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[smjjames]

The point is that we can't change what was the legit winner of the EC, even if it doesn't feel right.

@lagslayer, I'm just wondering out of curiosity on what's your opinion or the conservative opinion on the ranked voting experiment that Maine is doing? It could pave the way for getting out of the FPTP mess and would certainly require a change to the EC or abolishment.

edit 9 new replies, ow.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

So there's a petition with 2 million signatures calling for the Electoral College to vote for Clinton.

Also this: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inverse.com/amp/article/23594-petitions-faithless-electors-legal-fees?client=ms-android-verizon

There was an equally childish petition after Brexit by butthurt Remainers to ignore the result of the vote.

This ISN'T childish, though, because Clinton actually won the popular vote.

I hate when people say this, you realize that the electoral votes are decided by who wins either the popular vote in that state or in a few cases specific congressional districts, right? Also Clinton won it by LESS THAN HALF OF A MILLION VOTES, sooo... you can't REALLY make the claim that more people wanted her.

EDIT: Don't know if it's half-a-mill, just looked at the google tracker. Point is it's close.

[MasterFancyPants]

You know the real reason you guys lost is for things like what you are suggesting now.
That you want to disregard the US democratic process? Not a good way to get support.

[smjjames]

Has there ever been a civil war in a nuclear state yet?

Not while the nuclear state had that status, no.

[smirk]

I am tired as fuck if seeing both sets if you losers build up castels if sand around your goddamn "sexual identities" and "religious faith" hysteria.  You always, and I mean this the fullest way possible, and for both sets if people, act in the most disgustingly divisive, hypocritical, and shameless fashions possible while acting holier than thou from on high, then jump straight for the fucking victim card the moment the tide changes.

If you spent even half the time learning to actually love each other instead of demonizing and castigating each other, we wouldn't fucking be here right now, with a dangerous idiot holding the nuclear football.

Fuck.

wierd! Good God man, you can't just ride a high horse up onto the moral high ground like that! You'll die of asphyxiation!

[TheBiggerFish]

I don't like safe spaces used to restrict others' speech, but freedom of association (and non-association) is also a fundamental right.

@Sergarr:The electoral college was codified in the Constitution, not by the states.

I believe prevailing opinion is because it was a compromise position between North and South.

Yes, it would be absurd, but it would in fact be legal.  At least in most states.

You know the real reason you guys lost is for things like what you are suggesting now.
That you want to disregard the US democratic process? Not a good way to get support.

WE'RE NOT DISREGARDING THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS, BECAUSE IT WASN'T BLOODY WELL FOLLOWED IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Aughhhhhh.

So there's a petition with 2 million signatures calling for the Electoral College to vote for Clinton.

Also this: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inverse.com/amp/article/23594-petitions-faithless-electors-legal-fees?client=ms-android-verizon

There was an equally childish petition after Brexit by butthurt Remainers to ignore the result of the vote.

This ISN'T childish, though, because Clinton actually won the popular vote.

I hate when people say this, you realize that the electoral votes are decided by who wins either the popular vote in that state or in a few cases specific congressional districts, right? Also Clinton won it by LESS THAN HALF OF A MILLION VOTES, sooo... you can't REALLY make the claim that more people wanted her.

EDIT: Don't know if it's half-a-mill, just looked at the google tracker. Point is it's close.

Yes I can, because x+500,000 is still more than x.  Doesn't mean I'm necessarily correct, especially given that third parties breaking either way could have swung things, but it's still right based on the numbers.

[hector13]

You know the real reason you guys lost is for things like what you are suggesting now.
That you want to disregard the US democratic process? Not a good way to get support.

As opposed to saying the election is rigged during the election campaign?

[wierd]

I am tired as fuck if seeing both sets if you losers build up castels if sand around your goddamn "sexual identities" and "religious faith" hysteria.  You always, and I mean this the fullest way possible, and for both sets if people, act in the most disgustingly divisive, hypocritical, and shameless fashions possible while acting holier than thou from on high, then jump straight for the fucking victim card the moment the tide changes.

If you spent even half the time learning to actually love each other instead of demonizing and castigating each other, we wouldn't fucking be here right now, with a dangerous idiot holding the nuclear football.

Fuck.

wierd! Good God man, you can't just ride a high horse up onto the moral high ground like that! You'll die of asphyxiation!

The hell I can't. I don't need that air.

No sexual attraction, and agnostic. Shutup about your sex and gods already, kiss, and make up.

[EnigmaticHat]

Much forum. Such posting! Wow!

To many quote blocks. Too many side tangents..

Let me see if I have this right?

First, the lgbt crowd (who asserts repeatedly that they don't have an 'agenda', they just want legal recognition, which is fine.) Laughs, rubs peoples noses in a supreme court victory, backed by federal enforcement, with snide comments and pathological smugness, (instead of, you know, being good human beings and wanting to reassure mortified deists that God won't visit seven plagues on the nation or something, and honestly trying to be unifying instead of divisive), and being so emboldened by this victory, they feel untouchable. They push for absurd bullshit like "safe spaces", (because, like, those evil deist bastards just all want us to die! Fear fear fear! I need an echo chamber to safely feel frightened in!) Never mind that the very idea of such things is fucking offensive as fuck to otherwise benign straight people.  (Seriously, imagine for a moment thus counter situation: the religious fundies succeed in total criminalization of homosexual behavior, then emboldened by that victory, start demanding " safe places" where they can be free from any interaction with those deviant gay people, because they are all pedophiles, racists, molesters, and worse trying to corrupt everyone's morals and send then to hell. Offensive as fuck in its presumptiveness, isn't it?)

When those people hand the lgbt movement their asses via the election process, as they have done repeatedly to the straight majority for years, do they take it with mature aplomb? No. They double down on the fucking safe space bullshit the way religious idiots double down on trying to "fix" gay people. Now they want to use state rights to fight the very power they were so smugly in bed with just a year ago, because the worn turned.

I am tired as fuck if seeing both sets if you losers build up castels if sand around your goddamn "sexual identities" and "religious faith" hysteria.  You always, and I mean this the fullest way possible, and for both sets if people, act in the most disgustingly divisive, hypocritical, and shameless fashions possible while acting holier than thou from on high, then jump straight for the fucking victim card the moment the tide changes.

If you spent even half the time learning to actually love each other instead of demonizing and castigating each other, we wouldn't fucking be here right now, with a dangerous idiot holding the nuclear football.

Fuck.

It isn't the responsibility of the oppressed to comfort their oppressors.  Fundies can suck a dick.

Safe spaces isn't just LGBT, and even if it was, its the one thing gay bars have in common with churches so again.  Fundies can suck a dick.  It would be rude if someone walked into Sunday mass with a dildo strapped to their forehead quoting Nietzche.  Its not unreasonable for gay people to want a place they can be gay in peace.

[TheBiggerFish]

Also, for at least the third time, the electors were elected, not the Presidential candidates.

[smjjames]

I don't like safe spaces used to restrict others' speech, but freedom of association (and non-association) is also a fundamental right.

I thought the whole safe space and cultural microagression (whatever the heck that is) absurdity was coming from the SJW crowd?

And yeah TBF, it was a compromise between the northern and southern 13 original states.

[Draignean]

You know the real reason you guys lost is for things like what you are suggesting now.
That you want to disregard the US democratic process? Not a good way to get support.

Okay. Just. ... I want you to think long an hard about how you just identified the 'real reason' that a political party, in a complex multi-issue environment lost, and you did it on a video game forum. Think about that, and think about whether that statement deserves to be taken seriously.

Trump hasn't won.

Slates of Republican electors have won.  They have not yet cast their votes.  The box you checked on your ballot isn't, despite what it should be, a vote for your candidate of choice, or we'd have Clinton in office.

Republican electors are not the same thing as Trump winning.

@Everyone who's saying "It's the law":It isn't.  The provision for the Electoral College says nothing about how they are determined, nor how they should vote.  Only state laws, and they don't often say much.

TBF, think about it this way, what if it was backwards?

What if Trump had the popular, and Clinton the electoral? Would it be alright then? Or would you be clamoring against those dirty underhanded conservatives lobbying that is was rigged?

Make peace, and try to move forward from here. What's done is done, Clinton has quit the race.

[wierd]

Much forum. Such posting! Wow!

To many quote blocks. Too many side tangents..

Let me see if I have this right?

First, the lgbt crowd (who asserts repeatedly that they don't have an 'agenda', they just want legal recognition, which is fine.) Laughs, rubs peoples noses in a supreme court victory, backed by federal enforcement, with snide comments and pathological smugness, (instead of, you know, being good human beings and wanting to reassure mortified deists that God won't visit seven plagues on the nation or something, and honestly trying to be unifying instead of divisive), and being so emboldened by this victory, they feel untouchable. They push for absurd bullshit like "safe spaces", (because, like, those evil deist bastards just all want us to die! Fear fear fear! I need an echo chamber to safely feel frightened in!) Never mind that the very idea of such things is fucking offensive as fuck to otherwise benign straight people.  (Seriously, imagine for a moment thus counter situation: the religious fundies succeed in total criminalization of homosexual behavior, then emboldened by that victory, start demanding " safe places" where they can be free from any interaction with those deviant gay people, because they are all pedophiles, racists, molesters, and worse trying to corrupt everyone's morals and send then to hell. Offensive as fuck in its presumptiveness, isn't it?)

When those people hand the lgbt movement their asses via the election process, as they have done repeatedly to the straight majority for years, do they take it with mature aplomb? No. They double down on the fucking safe space bullshit the way religious idiots double down on trying to "fix" gay people. Now they want to use state rights to fight the very power they were so smugly in bed with just a year ago, because the worn turned.

I am tired as fuck if seeing both sets if you losers build up castels if sand around your goddamn "sexual identities" and "religious faith" hysteria.  You always, and I mean this the fullest way possible, and for both sets if people, act in the most disgustingly divisive, hypocritical, and shameless fashions possible while acting holier than thou from on high, then jump straight for the fucking victim card the moment the tide changes.

If you spent even half the time learning to actually love each other instead of demonizing and castigating each other, we wouldn't fucking be here right now, with a dangerous idiot holding the nuclear football.

Fuck.

It isn't the responsibility of the oppressed to comfort their oppressors.  Fundies can suck a dick.

Safe spaces isn't just LGBT, and even if it was, its the one thing gay bars have in common with churches so again.  Fundies can suck a dick.  It would be rude if someone walked into Sunday mass with a dildo strapped to their forehead quoting Nietzche.  Its not unreasonable for gay people to want a place they can be gay in peace.

Whoosh!! Missing the fucking point.

You say they can eat dick? They say you can go to hell. Everyone loses. That's the point.

[Reelya]

DEMOCRATIC PROCESS

But that's a fiction. All selection systems are flawed to some degree. You have the system you have. That is the "process". There is no such thing as the "democratic process" in some objective universal sense, because it can always be shown to be less democratic or fair than some other system.

e.g. if you go for FPTP national popular vote, I'll give you that plus IRV and say your system isn't the "process" because FPTP is an inherently flawed system that codifies the 2-party state, while IRV doesn't penalize you for having more parties.

But then, someone else points out how my IRV system still creates a monopoly of power of whoever got 50% of the final tally, so I should support MMP instead, because MMP has proportional representation.

But then, someone points out than in MMP systems, 51% of the representatives can still pas 100% of the legislation, meaning it's still the Tyranny of the Majority, so we should look at devolution of power and voluntary association instead. And of course, such systems are still not 100% democratic.

[MasterFancyPants]

You know the real reason you guys lost is for things like what you are suggesting now.
That you want to disregard the US democratic process? Not a good way to get support.

As opposed to saying the election is rigged during the election campaign?

Yeah, I know what a dumb thing to say.
You'd have to put up a pretty shit candidate in order to lose to someone what said that!