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[Draignean]

So there's a petition with 2 million signatures calling for the Electoral College to vote for Clinton.

Also this: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inverse.com/amp/article/23594-petitions-faithless-electors-legal-fees?client=ms-android-verizon

There was an equally childish petition after Brexit by butthurt Remainers to ignore the result of the vote.

This ISN'T childish, though, because Clinton actually won the popular vote.

Surely you realize that it would spark a civil war.
Surely you also realize which side has uall the guns + military support.
Surely you realize which side is already bottled up in cities and with no resources.

+ is responsible for most food production + has the greatest terrain advantage + highest % of vets ETC ETC...

That would not spark a civil war. At the absolute most, THE ABSOLUTE MOST, it would cause the current POTUS to give his trademark frown and reiterate his acceptance of Trump while Hillary Clinton did the same while Bill did shots in the background.

A part of me wonders whether civil war in America would even be possible these days, at least without massive sudden onset tyrranitus.

[redwallzyl]

who ever gets the popular vote for president SHOULD be president. to those fools yelling about the supposed tyranny of the majority the rest of the system is designed to prevent that. the electoral college does nothing of the sort though.

[EnigmaticHat]

So there's a petition with 2 million signatures calling for the Electoral College to vote for Clinton.

Also this: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inverse.com/amp/article/23594-petitions-faithless-electors-legal-fees?client=ms-android-verizon

*2,898,909 as of when I signed it.

Also, it's here: https://www.change.org/p/electoral-college-electors-electoral-college-make-hillary-clinton-president-on-december-19

I don't think this is the right solution.  Trump did win according to the rules as they were written.  And while its true that this would ALSO be right according to the rules that are written, and it would be justified because she did have more people vote for her...  think about how mad all of Trumps' voters would be if he ended up losing on a technicality after Hillary conceded.  And tell me that, in this one case, they wouldn't be justified in that anger.

It feels like it would be subverting democracy to be honest.  Like our election process is messed up yeah but you don't get out of debt by borrowing money.

[nenjin]

So there's a petition with 2 million signatures calling for the Electoral College to vote for Clinton.

Also this: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inverse.com/amp/article/23594-petitions-faithless-electors-legal-fees?client=ms-android-verizon

There was an equally childish petition after Brexit by butthurt Remainers to ignore the result of the vote.

This ISN'T childish, though, because Clinton actually won the popular vote.

Surely you realize that it would spark a civil war.
Surely you also realize which side has uall the guns + military support.
Surely you realize which side is already bottled up in cities and with no resources.

+ is responsible for most food production + has the greatest terrain advantage + highest % of vets ETC ETC...

You forgot "talks the most about making war on their own countrymen."

[TheBiggerFish]

@FancyPants:No.  I'm advocating removing negative incentives to voting one's conscience.

@Lagslayer:Then so be it.  If they really do refuse to accept the legitimate outcome of the Electoral College vote, that's on them.

So there's a petition with 2 million signatures calling for the Electoral College to vote for Clinton.

Also this: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inverse.com/amp/article/23594-petitions-faithless-electors-legal-fees?client=ms-android-verizon

*2,898,909 as of when I signed it.

Also, it's here: https://www.change.org/p/electoral-college-electors-electoral-college-make-hillary-clinton-president-on-december-19

I don't think this is the right solution.  Trump did win according to the rules as they were written.  And while its true that this would ALSO be right according to the rules that are written, and it would be justified because she did have more people vote for her...  think about how mad all of Trumps' voters would be if he ended up losing on a technicality after Hillary conceded.  And tell me that, in this one case, they wouldn't be justified in that anger.

It feels like it would be subverting democracy to be honest.  Like our election process is messed up yeah but you don't get out of debt by borrowing money.

So is the Electoral College, and if this election has taught me nothing it's that sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.

And then maybe we'll actually abolish this thing that did it in the first place.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

who ever gets the popular vote for president SHOULD be president. to those fools yelling about the supposed tyranny of the majority the rest of the system is designed to prevent that. the electoral college does nothing of the sort though.

Ought to be president? I may agree. Is president? Absolutely not. These are the rules as they are. Trump won.

So there's a petition with 2 million signatures calling for the Electoral College to vote for Clinton.

Also this: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inverse.com/amp/article/23594-petitions-faithless-electors-legal-fees?client=ms-android-verizon

*2,898,909 as of when I signed it.

Also, it's here: https://www.change.org/p/electoral-college-electors-electoral-college-make-hillary-clinton-president-on-december-19

I don't think this is the right solution.  Trump did win according to the rules as they were written.  And while its true that this would ALSO be right according to the rules that are written, and it would be justified because she did have more people vote for her...  think about how mad all of Trumps' voters would be if he ended up losing on a technicality after Hillary conceded.  And tell me that, in this one case, they wouldn't be justified in that anger.

It feels like it would be subverting democracy to be honest.  Like our election process is messed up yeah but you don't get out of debt by borrowing money.

Technically, the rules don't say "no faithless electors." And if they get mad then they will have bad PR, so we win.

And democracy has already been subverted, so why don't we just institute a complete totalitarian government?

/sarcasm

[MasterFancyPants]

But that's what the report says. It's a study of all arrests from 1955-2010 for those currently in prison.

At the very best, you can say those figures cover 20 years, because they cover people arrested 1990-2010 for 90% of cases.

But some of those people have been in prison since 1955, that's what the report is about. 8% committed homicide, and 10% have been in there over 20 years. It's common sense that a higher proportion of the 20+ year inmates are there for homicide.

No, it isn't all your 1955-2010 number is a criminal history analysis.


The stats I'm listing are 2005 - 2010 for the Bureau of Prisons and 2003 - 2009 for the State Criminal Alien Assistance Program. As is clearly stated at the beginning of the report.

[Lagslayer]

So there's a petition with 2 million signatures calling for the Electoral College to vote for Clinton.

Also this: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inverse.com/amp/article/23594-petitions-faithless-electors-legal-fees?client=ms-android-verizon

There was an equally childish petition after Brexit by butthurt Remainers to ignore the result of the vote.

This ISN'T childish, though, because Clinton actually won the popular vote.

Surely you realize that it would spark a civil war.
Surely you also realize which side has uall the guns + military support.
Surely you realize which side is already bottled up in cities and with no resources.

+ is responsible for most food production + has the greatest terrain advantage + highest % of vets ETC ETC...

You forgot "talks the most about making war on their own countrymen."

I would argue the opposite on that last point, but we were already discussing that.

[Draignean]

who ever gets the popular vote for president SHOULD be president. to those fools yelling about the supposed tyranny of the majority the rest of the system is designed to prevent that. the electoral college does nothing of the sort though.

No, they shouldn't, not unless we all get together and agree to change the rules again. Even so, we CANNOT do that in the middle of a transition. For now, we play by the rules as written. Yep, Al Gore would have been nice. Yep, Hillary Clinton would have been nice.

We work within the system. We do not break it because it did something we didn't like. We preserve, we improve, we excel. We do not tear up everything and jump up and down on it because it favored the other side. Justice, Reason, and Rule of Law.

Justice demands that the winner under the given rules take power, that is *gag* Trump.
Reason demands that we accept the accords of justice, and wait to make any changes until passion has cooled.
Law prohibits us from making any changes unless there is an overwhelming preponderance pressure to do so.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

So there's a petition with 2 million signatures calling for the Electoral College to vote for Clinton.

Also this: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inverse.com/amp/article/23594-petitions-faithless-electors-legal-fees?client=ms-android-verizon

There was an equally childish petition after Brexit by butthurt Remainers to ignore the result of the vote.

This ISN'T childish, though, because Clinton actually won the popular vote.

Surely you realize that it would spark a civil war.
Surely you also realize which side has uall the guns + military support.
Surely you realize which side is already bottled up in cities and with no resources.

+ is responsible for most food production + has the greatest terrain advantage + highest % of vets ETC ETC...

You forgot "talks the most about making war on their own countrymen."

I would argue the opposite on that last point, but we were already discussing that.

Seceding from the Union =/= making War on the Union. Duh.

[Reelya]

https://politics.slashdot.org/story/16/11/10/1457232/russia-says-it-was-in-touch-with-trump-campaign-during-election

The Russian government was in touch with members of President-elect Donald Trump's campaign staff during the U.S. election campaign, Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov told the Interfax news agency on Thursday. "There were contacts," Interfax cited Ryabkov as saying. He did not give details. When asked whether these contacts would now intensify after Trump's election victory, Ryabkov said: "These working moments and follow-up on this or that matter will depend on the situation and the questions which face us. But we will of course continue this work after the elections." Defeated Democratic presidential contender Hillary Clinton accused Trump of being a "puppet" of President Vladimir Putin during the campaign, and U.S. officials said Russia had hacked into Democratic party emails, something Moscow denied. Trump has said he might meet Putin before his inauguration, but Putin's spokesman has said there are currently no plans for such a meeting.

[TheBiggerFish]

Trump hasn't won.

Slates of Republican electors have won.  They have not yet cast their votes.  The box you checked on your ballot isn't, despite what it should be, a vote for your candidate of choice, or we'd have Clinton in office.

Republican electors are not the same thing as Trump winning.

@Everyone who's saying "It's the law":It isn't.  The provision for the Electoral College says nothing about how they are determined, nor how they should vote.  Only state laws, and they don't often say much.

[EnigmaticHat]

So there's a petition with 2 million signatures calling for the Electoral College to vote for Clinton.

Also this: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inverse.com/amp/article/23594-petitions-faithless-electors-legal-fees?client=ms-android-verizon

There was an equally childish petition after Brexit by butthurt Remainers to ignore the result of the vote.

This ISN'T childish, though, because Clinton actually won the popular vote.

Surely you realize that it would spark a civil war.
Surely you also realize which side has uall the guns + military support.
Surely you realize which side is already bottled up in cities and with no resources.

+ is responsible for most food production + has the greatest terrain advantage + highest % of vets ETC ETC...

You forgot "talks the most about making war on their own countrymen."

We did pretty well in the last civil war.

Which was a completely different kind of conflict than it would be in this era, granted.  I don't even have a guess as to what would happen in a civil war.  Except that it would be a nightmare, and likely (one way or the other) result in the end of America being at the top of the hegemony.  Also, ah, we have nukes.  Like they're pretty spread out all over the country.

Has there ever been a civil war in a nuclear state yet?

[wierd]

Much forum. Such posting! Wow!

To many quote blocks. Too many side tangents..

Let me see if I have this right?

First, the lgbt crowd (who asserts repeatedly that they don't have an 'agenda', they just want legal recognition, which is fine.) Laughs, rubs peoples noses in a supreme court victory, backed by federal enforcement, with snide comments and pathological smugness, (instead of, you know, being good human beings and wanting to reassure mortified deists that God won't visit seven plagues on the nation or something, and honestly trying to be unifying instead of divisive), and being so emboldened by this victory, they feel untouchable. They push for absurd bullshit like "safe spaces", (because, like, those evil deist bastards just all want us to die! Fear fear fear! I need an echo chamber to safely feel frightened in!) Never mind that the very idea of such things is fucking offensive as fuck to otherwise benign straight people.  (Seriously, imagine for a moment thus counter situation: the religious fundies succeed in total criminalization of homosexual behavior, then emboldened by that victory, start demanding " safe places" where they can be free from any interaction with those deviant gay people, because they are all pedophiles, racists, molesters, and worse trying to corrupt everyone's morals and send then to hell. Offensive as fuck in its presumptiveness, isn't it?)

When those people hand the lgbt movement their asses via the election process, as they have done repeatedly to the straight majority for years, do they take it with mature aplomb? No. They double down on the fucking safe space bullshit the way religious idiots double down on trying to "fix" gay people. Now they want to use state rights to fight the very power they were so smugly in bed with just a year ago, because the worn turned.

I am tired as fuck if seeing both sets if you losers build up castels if sand around your goddamn "sexual identities" and "religious faith" hysteria.  You always, and I mean this the fullest way possible, and for both sets if people, act in the most disgustingly divisive, hypocritical, and shameless fashions possible while acting holier than thou from on high, then jump straight for the fucking victim card the moment the tide changes.

If you spent even half the time learning to actually love each other instead of demonizing and castigating each other, we wouldn't fucking be here right now, with a dangerous idiot holding the nuclear football.

Fuck.

[Sergarr]

So there's a petition with 2 million signatures calling for the Electoral College to vote for Clinton.

Also this: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inverse.com/amp/article/23594-petitions-faithless-electors-legal-fees?client=ms-android-verizon

There was an equally childish petition after Brexit by butthurt Remainers to ignore the result of the vote.

This ISN'T childish, though, because Clinton actually won the popular vote.

Popular vote doesn't matter by the current "first-past-the-post" rules of USA elections, which were independently put into action by 50 states' legislation, which were, in order, lawfully elected by the American people living in those states in the past.

There is, in fact, a lot of signs indicating that the people who invented the Electoral College system did so to prevent populists - or, in other words, people who win the popular vote, like, ironically enough, Hillary - from taking control over the USA.

So, as it seems, the victory of Donald Trump is, as horrific as it sounds, the Electoral College system working as intended by the Founders.

Trump hasn't won.

I'm pretty sure that he's the only candidate left in the race at this point, though. Hillary has voluntarily conceded the election, hence she should be no longer eligible for POTUS.

I mean, otherwise these people could all put their vote for Jeb! and make him POTUS at this point, which is simply absurd.