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[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

Ok... I thought the whole "Trump Support Torture" was a... well Trump Bashing

But nope apparently he endorses it and kind of wants to reinstitute it.

That was surprising. I definitely hope he doesn't get around to it.

Him wanting to abolish the Geneva Convention? That is kind of people looking to deep into it. He only suggested it is out of date, not that it is entirely wrong and the US should start using flamethrowers and landmines.

I haven't heard anything close to abolising or ripping up the Geneva Convention.

He has said he wants to bring back waterboarding (I think we signed something at some point we wouldn't do it and not everybody agrees on it being torture), but most of the 'Trump supports torture' stuff is likely coming from what he said in one of the primary debates that he would bring back worse forms of torture 'because we gotta be TOUGH' while giving zero specifics.

It's mainly a case of being extremely vague and allowing people to interpret the heck out of it.

He didn't say Waterboarding...

He said "Enhanced interrogation tactics" AKA Torture.

It includes a lot more then just Waterboarding (which is a form of torture)... Such as pretending to execute the prisoner (also against the Geneva Convention).

And given Waterboarding tricks your system into thinking you are drowning... The defense of it is along the lines of "It doesn't leave a mark".

What the hell? It's not the mark that's left, it's the psychological harm and distress. That's like saying that emotional abuse is all fine and dandy unless you physically hurt somebody. That's messed up.

I did a poster on this. Here's the link. It's just staggering. They froze somebody to death. Someone almost drowned in their own vomit. This is sickeningly inhuman.

Well Trump put a leading climate skeptic in charge of environment. Ebell. The guy's history is as a big tobacco lobbyist. This is actually extremely common: many of the "tobacco doesn't cause cancer" people became the climate skeptics lobby after the big losses by the tobacco industry. So basically you have a soulless corporate shill right there who'd put radium in baby's milk formula if you paid him enough.

Welp.

[Neonivek]

Well Trump put a leading climate skeptic in charge of environment. Ebell. The guy's history is as a big tobacco lobbyist. This is actually extremely common: many of the "tobacco doesn't cause cancer" people became the climate skeptics lobby after the big losses by the tobacco industry. So basically you have a soulless corporate shill right there who'd put radium in baby's milk formula if you paid him enough.

OHH DEAR GAWD! Wait... How did he do that he is technically not president yet?

I honestly expected we would get a resting period before Trump does anything stupid... But I didn't think I'd get something before he even walks into the Oval Office.

No, I refuse to believe Trump did something so transparently wicked (putting someone in the Environment seat who would best suit corporate interests). I want proof!

What the hell? It's not the mark that's left, it's the psychological harm and distress. That's like saying that emotional abuse is all fine and dandy unless you physically hurt somebody. That's messed up.

Who ever said the justification of Waterboarding was anything else? "Well we aren't ACTUALLY drowning you. You are just experiencing all the symptoms of drowning"

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

Well Trump put a leading climate skeptic in charge of environment. Ebell. The guy's history is as a big tobacco lobbyist. This is actually extremely common: many of the "tobacco doesn't cause cancer" people became the climate skeptics lobby after the big losses by the tobacco industry. So basically you have a soulless corporate shill right there who'd put radium in baby's milk formula if you paid him enough.

OHH DEAR GAWD! Wait... How did he do that he is technically not president yet?

Trump: "once I'm president this guy will do stuff"

I honestly expected we would get a resting period before Trump does anything stupid... But I didn't think I'd get something before he even walks into the Oval Office.

guess again, his stupidity pervades all spacetime

What the hell? It's not the mark that's left, it's the psychological harm and distress. That's like saying that emotional abuse is all fine and dandy unless you physically hurt somebody. That's messed up.

Who ever said the justification of Waterboarding was anything else? "Well we aren't ACTUALLY drowning you. You are just experiencing all the symptoms of drowning"

killing is the bad

killing is not the only bad

get it into your heads you idiots

(that was directed to the idiots that support waterboarding, not you)

[Reelya]

I was poking around, and Ebell's conspiracy theory talk is North Korea levels of paranoid. In 2001 he came out as a climate skeptic, claiming that climate change is a hoax by the European Union along with the rest of the world specifically to damage the American economy. And he's going to be running policy now.

[TheBiggerFish]

Can we demand he be fired for gross incompetence?

[MasterFancyPants]

Criminal aliens            Noncitizens who are residing in the United States legally
                                or illegally and are convicted of a crime.

Some of the alien population have been arrested and
convicted of various crimes and incarcerated in federal and state prisons
and local jails. DHS refers to these individuals as criminal aliens.2
Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), one of DHS’s components,
is responsible for apprehending and removing those criminal aliens that do
not have a legal right to remain in the United States.
2
As we reported in April 2005, criminal aliens are noncitizens convicted of crimes while in
this country legally or illegally. For more information, see GAO, Information on Criminal
Aliens Incarcerated in Federal and State Prisons and Local Jails, GAO-05-337R
(Washington, D.C.: Apr. 7, 2005).


To determine the types of offenses for which criminal aliens were
arrested, we obtained the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) arrest
histories of about 203,000 criminal aliens incarcerated in state prisons and
local jails from July 1, 2004, through June 30, 2008, and 48,000 criminal
aliens incarcerated in federal prisons as of December 27, 2008, for a total
of 251,000 criminal aliens. Due to the large volume of arrests and offenses,
we selected a random sample of 1,000 criminal aliens and analyzed their
arrest records to estimate the number and types of offenses in our study
population of approximately 249,000.6
 There were nearly 1.7 million arrest
records relating to nearly 3 million offenses for these 249,000 criminal
aliens. To determine the type of offenses for which criminal aliens were
convicted, we analyzed data from the U.S. Sentencing Commission on
federal convictions of criminal aliens from fiscal years 2003 through 2009
and conviction data from five states—Arizona, California, Florida, New
York, and Texas—from fiscal years 2005 through 2008. We selected these
five states based on the number of SCAAP criminal aliens. Collectively,
these states accounted for about 70 percent of the SCAAP criminal alien
population in fiscal year 2008.

5
The periods of time covered by these data vary because they reflect updates since we last
reported on these issues in 2005 (see GAO-05-337R and GAO-05-646R). Moreover, they
reflect the most recent data available at the time of our analysis.


Now. Lets look at homicide rates. As per the graph on page 27. Illegal aliens committed 25,064 homicides.
If we calculate for all non-citizens (DOJ BOP) (25.3MIL) which covered 7 years: 25064 / 7 = 3580.5714 / 25.3MIL = .0001415246 * 100,000 = A rate of 14.15 per 100,000.

If we calculate for illegal aliens (SCAAP) (10.8MIL) which covered 4 years: 25064 / 4 = 6266 / 10.8MIL = .0005801852 * 100,000 = A rate of 58.01 per 100,000.
Now, as I said give a high margin of error: ~10%

Still that results in a much higher homicide rate than the average US citizen during the same time period (1993-2012): 6.125 per 100,000
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/1tabledatadecoverviewpdf/table_1_crime_in_the_united_states_by_volume_and_rate_per_100000_inhabitants_1993-2012.xls

[nenjin]

Can we demand he be fired for gross incompetence?

It's called impeachment and the chances of a Republican House/Senate approving it are unlikely unless he does a complete 180 on his professed policy positions.

If you're talking about Ebell, no. He serves at the pleasure of the president. Although Trump could probably be pressured to replace him.

[Sergarr]

Ah, I see. You're not just supporting it because it's moral, you're supporting it because it's a good long-term plan. I can get behind that.

Well, moral things are generally good things to do long-term-wise. It's why they're moral, after all. Wisdom of the ages and all that. It's of course not infallible, but it's a good indicator that you're doing something right.

And man, it looks like the Republican government is going to absolutely wreck their re-election chances by trying to cram all their crazies in. That's quite a potential for a 50 state Democrat sweep in 2020. Possibly even in 2018, for mid-term elections to Congress, depending on how fast the poor/minority people realize that they've been fucked over by a golden calf.

[Neonivek]

MasterFancyPants There IS no graph on page 27

[TheBiggerFish]

Can we demand he be fired for gross incompetence?

It's called impeachment and the chances of a Republican House/Senate approving it are unlikely unless he does a complete 180 on his professed policy positions.

If you're talking about Ebell, no. He serves at the pleasure of the president. Although Trump could probably be pressured to replace him.

I meant Ebell, yes.

Or, really, anyone he appoints.

[MasterFancyPants]

MasterFancyPants There IS no graph on page 27

Go to the top of your screen and make sure the it says:

316959.pdf                                                     27/71                                           


Edit: Oh, I see. The REPORT only has 64 pages. The pdf has 71. Got me there.

[Reelya]

I've started reading through the GAO report. The first note is page 23-24 of the PDF, part of which you quoted. The part you didn't quote is relevant. It mentions 249,000 criminal aliens, but then the table on page 24 lists number of arrests per person, and it states that the data covers all arrests from 1955 to 2010. So your quote is missing the important context that those 249,000 people were arrested over a 55 year period.

Then on page 20 (PDF page 26) it mentions that 8% were arrested for homicide. So we can say that 249,000 illegals were arrested over 55 years, and 8% of those were for homicide. That gives 249000/55 * 0.08 = about 360 homicide arrests per year for all illegal aliens from 1955 to 2010. Working that out against an illegal immigrant population of 10 million gives average homicide arrests of 3.62 per 100,000.

In other words your figures are baloney, because the report itself states that it covers 55 years of data.

[Criptfeind]

And man, it looks like the Republican government is going to absolutely wreck their re-election chances by trying to cram all their crazies in. That's quite a potential for a 50 state Democrat sweep in 2020. Possibly even in 2018, for mid-term elections to Congress, depending on how fast the poor/minority people realize that they've been fucked over by a golden calf.

This seems overly.... optimistic. And maybe just a bit insulting, somewhat. It seems like it take a ridiculously serious economic meltdown to cause such a thing. Especially since like, Republicans seem to do better mid term then democrats.

Long term implications aside I doubt Trump can cause that level of disaster in 2 years.

[TheBiggerFish]

So there's a petition with 2 million signatures calling for the Electoral College to vote for Clinton.

Also this: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inverse.com/amp/article/23594-petitions-faithless-electors-legal-fees?client=ms-android-verizon

[nenjin]

Long term implications aside I doubt Trump can cause that level of disaster in 2 years.

As this election taught us, trust nothing. BELIEVE NOTHING.