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[3_14159]

Spoiler: GM Rant (click to show/hide)

Double Six, I couldn't argue.

I did plan for that.

No spy phase, since you know what they made last year. Now we wait for battle...

We do?

Other than that: Pretty nice designs, all in all. The Patriot Rifle can completely supersede our previous smoothbore musket, meaning a large increase in firepower all-around. The Patriot Rifle Mk. II, on the other hand, can be handed to 1/10th of our soldiers. This will probably be the skirmishers who - mirroring the Napoleonic war rifle units - can disrupt and kill enemy formations from a large distance.

Otherwise we might as well get started on general discussion for the next phase.  Heavier cannon or a ship to mount it on maybe?

It depends on the turn, of course. Right now, I'd definitely prefer a rifled cannon first, which we ideally can retrofit onto our ships for a short-term solution. The turn afterwards, I'd then design a small-ish steam ship mounting the cannon.

[evilcherry]

I meant what they have in the year before game commences.

[stabbymcstabstab]

I agree that a rifled cannon would work best, especially since our metal carriages for the rifle failed we should probably not make them bigger.

[Nirur Torir]

Remember to add in different ammo types while writing the cannon proposal. We're stuck with solid shot right now, when we could have chain, grape, canister, and possibly shrapnel, shot.

Personally, I'd like to aim for machine guns before we spend a turn focusing on ships, and trust the new cannons and rifles to hold us through. We might want to spend a turn on sidearms (or another turn for better rifles) first, to make sure we have smokeless powder, metal casings, and to figure out a suitable loading mechanism.

[NRDL]

PTW

[evilcherry]

Manonera uses these weapons:

Spoiler: Manonera 1910 (click to show/hide)

Weapons:
Patriot Rifle: A 7x55mm rifle, bolt action, barrel length 110cm. Poor machining practices and a lack of machine tools means only paper cartridges are produced as dictated by the Army Chief, who was horribly burnt as a bystander in a jamming accident where brass cartridges were used. This restricts the gun to single shot only for the time being.
Modified Patriot Rifle: A 7x55mm rifle, bolt action, barrel length 110cm. Paper cartridges are now filled with complex imported smokeless powder, and a complex rudimentary sight is used. 1 Metal, complex
Sabres: Weapons used by Officers and horsemen alike. 1 Metal.
6lb-er cannons: The more civilized way to dump metal around. Solid shot only. 2 metal.

Ships:
Rowboats: When everything fails.
Sloops: Speed is all that matters. A fast and agile vessel which can outrun junks when sailing into the wind. Have a tendency to flutter dangerously when sailing directly downwind, or even a broad reach (i.e. wind is blowing from 45 degrees either side from the aft). [2 Transport capacity]
Armed sloops: Sloops with a 6lber gun in a chaser configuration. 2 metal.

Land Vehicles:
Horses: A civilized way to move around.
Horse Carts: A civilized way to move more things around. [2 Transport capacity]

Technology:
Semaphores and telegraph wires - Perfectly good ways to relay things around.
Black Powder
Smokeless powder - imported, at least Complex
Rudimentary Sights - Complex
Cannons
Steel
Oil
Flintlocks

Naval Battle:

Naval battles were usually like this. Sloops find a Junk in an unwanted position, gives chase, Junk turns downwind, Sloops break chase. Your sailors said, to the navy chief's disbelief, that one of your sloops were sunk in an encounter with the empire, beyond usual engagement range. Due to this news, your sailors were less eager to pursue Empire Junks. Slight Disadvantage to Manonera.

Land Battle, Far West Island line (Mountain):

Your better rifles means you are much better in defending your position. The enemy seems to be capable of projecting more firepower from afar, but their numbers are not to be feared about. Your snipers took some of their officers with relative ease, and their line soldiers were falling like leaves to your superior firepower. You gain ground, Fighting on 3rd tile on your side.

Land Battle, Far East Island line (Rocks on the sea):

Your men tried to row across the waterways to assault the enemy rocks, before they were downed squarely by rockets, and it sunk with most hands. Their counterattack were repulsed by your superior rifles and cannonfire from well defended positons. Stalemate, fighting on 2nd tile from your side.

Land Battle, West Mainland Line (Swamps)

Your cannons were hard to use in this location, but luckily your men reported far fewer rockets in this area. Your snipers sniped for fun in this area, and the enemy lines fell apart once in contact with your soldiers. You gain ground. Fighting on 4th tile from your side.

Land Battle, East Mainland line (Plains)

It was hell for your troops. In one particular battle, as your troops were getting into positions, they were met by a barrage of rockets, fired from a range further then they should. Before your men can properly react and regroups, the enemy cavalry charged into them and they routed quickly. Your soldiers seemed to be less confident in lining up since. In a fair line to line duel, though, your men have the upper hand in superior firepower, and their officers tend to be sniped first. All in all, You loses ground mainly due to the charge. Fighting on 2nd tile from your side.

Its 1911 Design phase.

[Nirur Torir]

They'll probably go with either a rifle upgrade of their own or try to grab naval dominance this turn. Since they had rifling last year, their rifles would likely end up better.

Snipers trump rocket artillery, both in effectiveness and morale damage. I don't think we need cannons to counter them. If we do go with cannons this turn, I'd prefer to focus on anti-personal uses than on long range - We could get larger naval guns later or in this revision stage.

I'd like to note that we have 2 transport capacity, only enough for 2 metal or 1 metal/1 oil. Exploding cannon shells or upgrading our ships should wait until we fix this.

I'm tentatively going to vote for a better battle rifle, with the bugs ironed out, magazines, and bayonets. If we manage to get them as simple, our sailors may be able to hold out until we get cannons, and we'll make cavalry nearly obsolete.

Proposal: Patriot Rifle Mk. III:
Redesign the Patriot Rifle to use a magazine and metal cartridges, as originally planned. Figure out reliable metal sights and start domestic smokeless powder production. Get bayonets.

[3_14159]

I must disagree on that. Any improvement to our rifles will end up an improvement, yes, but far less than if we'd design something else.
Our losses last turn came from a) a long-range anti-ship weapon mounted on theirs, and b) a rocket barrage. Both of these can be countered by designing and deploying a longer-range artillery gun.

Proposal: "Breech" Field Cannon
The "Breech" field cannon, named for its most distinguishing feature, is a rifled breech-loading cannon. The 90mm cannon loads shells (available as shell, shrapnel and armour-piercing naval ammunition) and smokeless powder separately.

[tntey]

While I agree with new design, why not just do that in revision?

[Nirur Torir]

The "Breech" field cannon, named for its most distinguishing feature, is a rifled breech-loading cannon. The 90mm cannon loads shells (available as shell, shrapnel and armour-piercing naval ammunition) and smokeless powder separately.

-1. If our current cannons are up against our TC limit than I think these would go over it, and I don't think trying to skip an entire generation of ammo is a good idea, especially since we still have the metal casings issue.

While I agree with new design, why not just do that in revision?

I don't think revision phases can be relied on for new technologies. We somewhat managed it with sixes, but they're complex. I really don't think we can revise a gun with both new tech and simplify two complex techs in a single revise phase.

[tntey]

Ok. I support the patriot rife mk III but, is the bayonet necessary?

[3_14159]

-1. If our current cannons are up against our TC limit than I think these would go over it, and I don't think trying to skip an entire generation of ammo is a good idea, especially since we still have the metal casings issue.

I don't think they do. Our current cannons seem to be muzzle-loaded smoothbores, probably similar to the Gribeauval system. In comparison, the new proposal comes from the same era as the Gribeauval's successor.
We have already tested rifling and breech-loading in our rifle, this is just ("just", as if it were that simple in real life :-) ) a matter of scaling it up.

While I agree with new design, why not just do that in revision?

I don't think revision phases can be relied on for new technologies. We somewhat managed it with sixes, but they're complex. I really don't think we can revise a gun with both new tech and simplify two complex techs in a single revise phase.

In addition, the proposed cannon uses a significantly larger calibre, and has too many innovations to really count. Transforming our cannon into a rifled muzzle-loader is something I could see as being possible in a revision phase.

[stabbymcstabstab]

I vote for the cannon, then I say we should revise the Patriot with rifling. We need to prepare to commit a massive naval build up since other wise they'll just do what the British did in the 1780 game and win since they can invade us from anywhere.

[Nirur Torir]

Ok. I support the patriot rife mk III but, is the bayonet necessary?

I suppose not, but it should be pretty easy to add on if the rifle is designed with it in mind, and will it will help against cavalry and in urban environments.

I don't think they do. Our current cannons seem to be muzzle-loaded smoothbores, probably similar to the Gribeauval system. In comparison, the new proposal comes from the same era as the Gribeauval's successor.
We have already tested rifling and breech-loading in our rifle, this is just ("just", as if it were that simple in real life :-) ) a matter of scaling it up.

We're still on solid shot for cannons, and paper cartridges for rifles. I'm concerned that the ammo upgrade difficulties would make it complex, on top of the ammo being more expensive than we can handle.

I guess they would work anyway, at least for naval purposes - Their rockets can't be very accurate, and they only sank one sloop while firing at long range. A few would help on land, as well, but probably not well enough to counter both their rockets and slightly better rifles than ours.

I'm not entirely against the cannons, as they would still work nicely towards machine guns, work better with machine guns, and those would make better rifles than the Patriot Mk. III easier.
If they don't work right, we may need to spend next turn developing rail lines instead of better killing.

I vote for the cannon, then I say we should revise the Patriot with rifling. We need to prepare to commit a massive naval build up since other wise they'll just do what the British did in the 1780 game and win since they can invade us from anywhere.

We have rifled rifles, and we can't afford properly metal ships yet.

[3_14159]

I vote for the cannon, then I say we should revise the Patriot with rifling.

I thought it was already rifled?