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Author Topic: Civ IV - Let's Try the British Empire: The Industrial Revolution  (Read 17110 times)

A Thing

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Re: Civ IV - Let's Try England: The Dark Ages
« Reply #60 on: April 12, 2016, 03:06:34 pm »

That was why I mentioned it in the first place, he definitely isn't the current king though; he became king roughly around 734 and the update ends at 1057, so if he is still the king there is some serious Carthaginian necromancy going on.
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Iituem

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Re: Civ IV - Let's Try England: The Dark Ages
« Reply #61 on: April 12, 2016, 03:49:42 pm »

You'll have noticed we have multiple kings of the same name, and yes - we're definitely due a good Queen.  But the House of Pendragon is the House of Pendragon for a reason, aye.  :D
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Let's Play Arcanum: Of Steamworks & Magic Obscura! - The adventures of Jack Hunt, gentleman rogue.

No slaughtering every man, woman and child we see just to teleport to the moon.

A Thing

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Re: Civ IV - Let's Try England: The Dark Ages
« Reply #62 on: April 13, 2016, 01:08:20 pm »

So the Uther that is mentioned in 796 is a different Uther? If so, why isn't he Uther II or III? Unless you meant that we have had kings which have the same name, but Arthur's dad wasn't Uther the MMXIV from what I remember. Not that being even vaguely accurate matters, just look at western Britain!
« Last Edit: April 13, 2016, 01:13:40 pm by A Thing »
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Wasteland 1 & 2
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Makes me curious, can cyborgs have future babies too?
On the offchance they can, I know who I want my daddy to be
(finished)Age of Decadence

Iituem

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Re: Civ IV - Let's Try England: The Dark Ages
« Reply #63 on: April 13, 2016, 03:22:15 pm »

So the Uther that is mentioned in 796 is a different Uther? If so, why isn't he Uther II or III? Unless you meant that we have had kings which have the same name, but Arthur's dad wasn't Uther the MMXIV from what I remember. Not that being even vaguely accurate matters, just look at western Britain!

No, it's the same Uther in 796, but there will be a different Uther later in the line.  Simple fact is, I was going to do Arthur as the next king and then the Dark Ages hit, and it just became impossible to bring in the Once and Future King during such a terrible time period.

Edit:  A preview of next update!

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« Last Edit: April 13, 2016, 06:58:39 pm by Iituem »
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Re: Civ IV - Let's Try England: The Confucian Restoration
« Reply #64 on: April 14, 2016, 11:55:23 am »

A Review of Pre-Renaissance America



Swiftly enough, George VII (George VI's son and the new king) sent ambassadors to Washington, the capital of the Eastern American kingdom.  From there, embassies were set up with all four American realms; Eastern America, a hereditary monarchy based around a strictly organised bureaucracy (not unlike that of England) but still keeping slaves and operating a structured Buddhist church; Western America, a feudal, hereditary monarchy based on slavery and a structured Buddhist church; Egypt, a feudal monarchy based off hereditary rule and a structured Buddhist church; and Russia, a brutal tyrant-state with little organised government except the institution of slavery and the Buddhist church.

Needless to say, Buddhism was a potent unifier of America.  Its influence could be felt across the whole of the continent.  But beyond Buddhism, what else defined America at the time?  Fortunately the records of George VII's spymistress, Lady Ordo, contain detailed information on Eastern America in 1060CE.  Her sources suggest that she had successfully (and swiftly!) suborned key members of the Eastern American civil service, giving her unrivalled information on a rival state that had never needed to defend against English influence before.



Of the capital, Washington, detailed records survive.  In 1060 it held 630,000 souls, an its economy was chiefly geared around hunting, mining and farming.  It held few outer boroughs of note, unlike many of the English cities at the time who were heavily expanding neighbouring market towns.  Nevertheless, Washington had an impressive manufacturing industry and had constructed many great projects in its time; Stonehenge, the Hagia Sophia, the Mahabodhi, and was on the verge of completing a great, golden statue of the warrior aspect of Buddha.  Washington lacked the sophisticated and entrenched middle classes of England, with an economy more based on slaves than specialist labour.

The influence of the Mahabodhi cannot be understated.  Built around the site where the Buddha was said to have gained enlightenment, the elaborate series of golden and brick shrines served as a focal point of pilgrimage for Buddhists throughout America.  From grand donations and commissions of religious artwork to the simple offerings of the masses and the manufacture and sale of incense for prayer, the Mahabodhi gave the Eastern Americans a great deal of wealth in addition to its political influence.

The Americans ate many foods similar to those of the British (beef, mutton, wheat, fish and shellfish) but also dined upon rice and bananas, unique to the Americas.  Even more distinct were the luxuries they enjoyed; dyes, furs, incense, silk, silver and wine were all unknown to the British, yet considered relatively common to the Americans - furs and wine in particular they enjoyed in abundance.

Eastern America as a whole was verdant, experienced ample rainfall, and enjoyed a largely labour-based economy.  In 1060, the Eastern Americans were undergoing an industrial evolution, with many forges and harbours being built across the realm.



By comparison, Western America was an arid land, dominated by desert and the snaking, flooding Mississipi river that brought life to the Western American cities.  It is unknown how specialised the economy of Western America was, save that their economy was based far more on trade and sub-urban industries than the Eastern kingdom.  They mined and farmed to a limited extent, but the great bounty of the Mississipi permitted a dense surplus population.



The smallest of the American nations, Russia consisted at the time of a handful of city-states, each extremely populous to make up for their limited expanse of land.  Still based largely around fishing and farming, 1060 saw the Russians part-way through an evolution towards a trade-based urban economy, with growing suburbs from the larger cities.  Standing tall and proud around the old city-states of Moscow and St Petersburg was the Great Wall of Russia, even then daring people to make war with them at their peril.  The wall's construction was hardly surprising; Russia had always been hemmed in by the other American powers on all fronts.



Rather more spread out than Russia, Egypt enjoyed a mixture of verdant plains and bountiful hills, able to support a small number of extremely populous cities, a thriving urban economy in the south and a labour-based resource economy in the north.





1057 - 1133: The Hindu Pope and the Confucian Restoration

In 1062, the old palace of the Kings of Carthage was restored in said city.  Strictly prohibited for centuries by the English monarchy, the palace had acquired the name of the "Forbidden Palace".  Rebuilt in the classical Confucian style, the Palace served as the nominal winter home of the monarch, but also as an administrative hub for all of Africa.  With the watchful eye of the bureaucracy in the heart of the English African holdings, the corruption that had plagued old King Uther I's government had been weeded out at long last.

In Zululand, the Red Lion campaign progressed apace, with the fall of the Zulu town of Gao and further sacking and destruction of the local infrastructure.  With no intention of permanently holding lands, the Lions wreaked devastation that would not have been imagined in the days when their forefathers took the cities of Carthage.


Quote
Enter ORDO, in the guise of a handmaiden, carrying water

ABAL:  Put that down, wench, and pour us some wine.

PRINCE:  Cut mine with water, girl, it is early yet for strong wine.  What of the southern city, Abal?

ABAL:  There is some discontent, my lord, over the imprisonment of the elders.  They are asking for clemency.

PRINCE:  And they shall have it.  Any crime they have committed, they have done so out of love for me.

PRINCE drinks

ABAL:  No, wench, no water in mine.  I shall have the order sent immediately, my lord.

PRINCE:  And what news of the matter in Cardiff?

ABAL:  It is done, my lord, not a week hence.  The King, his family and his people are dying, though they know it not.

PRINCE:  And the evidence?

ABAL:  Arranged.  King Edward will be blamed for everything.  Damn you, girl, I said not to cut my wine with water!

ORDO:  Apologies, my lord.  Shall I pour you a new glass?

ABAL:  You may get out of my sight, and inform the majordomo to have you whipped five, nay, fifteen times for your insolence!

ORDO:  Yes, my lord.  Apologies, my lord.

Exit ORDO

PRINCE:  Well done, Abal.  It is high time Gareth was punished for the theft of my love.

ABAL:  Indeed, my lord.

ABAL drinks.  Enter WATCHMAN

WATCHMAN:  My lord, the people are at arms!  The south keep has fallen.

PRINCE:  What?  Abal, you informed me that things were in hand.

ABAL:  Speak, man, why have they risen up?

WATCHMAN:  The families of the elders are leading the mob.  They cite your hanging of the traitors as tyranny, my prince.

PRINCE:  I gave no such order!

WATCHMAN:  I received and carried out the order myself, my lord.  It bore your seal.

Enter SECOND WATCHMAN

2ND WATCH:  My lord, people are dying in the northern city!  Men and women litter the streets.

ABAL:  Then the fighting has reached the northern city already?  Damn their eyes!

2ND WATCH:  No, my lord.  It is the water!  The wells and aqueduct have been poisoned!

PRINCE:  Poison?  But, if that is so -

The PRINCE clutches his throat.
- Act IV, Scene II, Thomas Middleton's The Water-Carrier

February of 1072 saw another stroke of poisonings, this time in Cardiff, claiming the life of King Gareth of Wales, as well as several of his family members.  Six months later, Aksum, capital of the kingdom of Ethiopia, was struck simultaneously by a mass poisoning of the wells and grain stores of the city along with an armed insurrection against the rule of the King.  The ensuing sickness and dissent would reign for the next forty years, creating a sense of unrest and strife that would give rise to a new influential religion; Islam.

[Screw you, Zara Yaqob.  See how you like it.  I can't prove it was you, so I don't have a casus belli, but besides the one village that belongs to my Victory-damned vassal, you're the only other civ on this continent!  Keep it up and I'll dissent every last one of your cities.  Fun fact: Zara overcomes the unhappiness penalty in his capital by staging more than twenty bloody units there!  Ethiopia has a terrifying navy of six galleys and four triremes.  Of course, they should be so much mincemeat before our caravels, but that only happens should we declare war.]

[Also, Zara Yaqob got Divine Right before we could.  Fair enough.  That's what we have Espionage Points for.]



Over the five decades since the charters of the first true Guilds, pooled resources between the members of various organisations resulted in a large amount of wealth free for investment - initial venture capital.  The concept of loans had existed since ancient times, even the concept of repayment with interest; the first loans were of the variety known today as the 'payday loan', a short-term loan to cover immediate deficiencies.  Often these were given out by priests to tide labourers over until pay-day and permit them to get enough food to eat; of course, as the priests were the primary employers of the labourers, the nature of the trap is obvious.  What changed in the late eleventh century was the approach of borrowers to use larger sums not to cover personal needs but to develop businesses and engage in large-scale works.  This greatly magnified the value of existing liquidity in terms of returns and investments, seeing the first true banks develop in England.



The Pope in Aksum attempted to intervene in the English war upon the Zulu in 1093, appealing to the Hindu nations of the world to put an end to such barbarity - conveniently timed with a large donation of Zulu gold to the Papal coffers.  Realising that despite housing the most Hindu citizens in the world the influence of English cardinals in the Apostolic palace was minimal, King Edward of England could not risk the dangerous effects of offending the Pope directly - his influence upon Hindu citizens throughout the realm could cause problems for his whole reign, were he to be excommunicated.  So he took an Indian princess for a wife and formally converted to Hinduism, to appease the Pope and permit the continuation of his war.  Ten years of religious strife rocked the nation, with many colonial cities celebrating the conversion whilst the home shires grew vocal and violent in dissent.

[I am beginning to regret not building the Apostolic Palace now.  If a vote gets put through, the Palace Resident can screw you over in various ways; enforcing peace, for instance.  Defying the resolution works, but it pisses off your citizens.  Really pisses them off.  We would take an Unhappiness penalty of 5 pops for this.  Five!  Hence, it is actually slightly less disruptive to change religions entirely for a few turns.  We won't be able to go back to Confucianism for 9 turns (2 turns of anarchy, 5 turns waiting, 2 turns more anarchy), and we will lose four turns' worth of complete turn advantage, which is a big cost.  On the flip side, Shaka has three significant cities I want to take before we peace out, and it's worth the cost to seize them.]




In 1125, following the successful capture of Ulundi, Nongoma and uMgungundlovu, the port cities of the eastern Zulu coast, the elderly King Edward abdicated his throne and handed it over to his daughter, Princess (shortly thereafter Queen) Mary, a staunch Confucian.  Ten further years of religious strife ensued in a series of bloody pogroms known as the Confucian Restoration.  Queen Mary drew many Confucian advisors around her, including the former imam Atal of Gondar, an advisor to the court of the Prince of Ethiopia, prior to Mary's poaching him.  A gifted theologian, Atal espoused the philosophy that a monarch's right to rule came not from any earthly authority, but from Victory herself.  This strongly appealed to Mary's sense of grandeur, as well as contributing to the myth she drew about herself of being a prophet destined to restore Confucianism to its rightful place in the sun.  As what might have been considered a sign of this, it was during Mary's reign that the battered
Golden Hind returned to British shores, many times repaired and crewed by the descendants of the original sailors.  Raleigh's ship had successfully circumnavigated the globe.




With the fall of Bulawayo in 1133, Queen Mary felt her grip on Zululand secure.  The King of the Zulus, Shaka, was dragged before her in chains.  Queen Mary presented a simple offer; kneel before her and live, blessed with riches, comfort and the security of a future; or stand and die, along with every last Zulu man, woman and child.  King Shaka knelt before her and arose Duke Shaka of Zululand.  The wealthy city of Niani was ceded, and in return the shattered remnants of Angle and Gao were given back to the Zulu to rebuild.

With this, Mary Pendragon crowned herself Queen of England, Africa and Zululand.  The alliance of powers neatly divided up the Eastern World; England, with its vassals Carthage, India and Zululand, against the scattered but well-developed pockets of Sumer, Ethiopia and Mali.  The Age of Reason was upon them, but which nation would reach it first?




Short update, because it's decision time.  The primary threats are Sumer and Ethiopia, Mali is only four cities large and one of those is a tiny fishing village on the coast.  Sumer has expanded to cover much of northern Africa, whilst Ethiopia has remained trapped in its corner of Britain and consequently engaged in some impressive Tall expansion.  Most of Ethiopia is now villages or towns.  Sumer will ultimately be a problem for us, but the real thorn in our side is Ethiopia.  Quite apart from the constant spy-screwing, which we are now decently shielded against, they are a) the Pope, which is bad, and b) are thirty turns away from Astronomy.  I was researching Education, but have switched to Astro because it is imperative that we beat them there.  With Astronomy comes Galleons and the ability to move all my troops straight from Zululand to Britain.

Should we crush Ethiopia?  Right now, they are at broad tech parity, which is bad.  However, Astro will let us get our troops back down to Britain and we have excellent production towns in the homeland to churn out ships and troops.  The big change will come with Rifling, which requires Gunpowder and Replaceable Parts.  If we bee-line for Rifling after Astronomy (Gunpowder, Printing Press, Replaceable Parts, Rifling) we should reach it ahead of the Ethiopians and in time to upgrade all of our troops.

Rifling is the next big leap in infantry warfare (Str 8 to Str 14), and more than that it opens up our Unique Unit, the Redcoat (rifles with bonus against other gunpowder units).  The bad news is, Ethiopia gets its unique unit (Oromo Warriors) at Gunpowder, in lieu of Musketmen.  We will properly need to race to be prepared for war against them if they get gunpowder first (which they are like to do).

So, the question is:  Should we prepare for eventual war against Ethiopia, or continue a peaceful stance?
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Haspen

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Re: Civ IV - Let's Try England: The Confucian Restoration
« Reply #65 on: April 14, 2016, 12:31:30 pm »

Hahaha, I cannot help but imagine Shaka saying his line as 'HERE'S MY OFFEEEEERRR!!' with they way you captured his face on the screenshot ;D
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Re: Civ IV - Let's Try England: The Confucian Restoration
« Reply #66 on: April 14, 2016, 01:02:20 pm »

Well, war worked quite well for us so far.... Would it be possible to cripple them without war, via espionage or something? If we attack them, won't they just use the Papacy to screw us?
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Iituem

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Re: Civ IV - Let's Try England: The Confucian Restoration
« Reply #67 on: April 14, 2016, 01:15:17 pm »

Well, war worked quite well for us so far.... Would it be possible to cripple them without war, via espionage or something? If we attack them, won't they just use the Papacy to screw us?

Espionage works, but it requires resources diverted from our research budget.  I do have a basic plan worked out, wherein if we are preparing to declare war we churn out enough spies to cause uprisings across their entire nation; Cause Dissent lasts 8 turns (drops 1 unhappy citizen per turn) and because Zara runs Hereditary Rule it forces him to spread his forces out somewhat to counter it.  Even if it doesn't work that way, it still draws his focus and makes it painful for him in terms of lost productive citizens.

The big problem is doing lasting damage.  I could conceivably send spies to sabotage his Towns, which are the source of his wealth and power (using your enemy's strengths against him), and that would cripple him without a war - but Towns take forever to grow and I want them for myself (a good war doesn't completely destroy the infrastructure you want to capture).  Unrest is temporary and inciting riots is expensive, so war is simply the cheapest, most efficient method of crippling him.

One thing I can do in preparation, though, is see if I can't force him to change religion.  We have open borders, so it's trivial to send Confucian missionaries over to his cities and start some mass-conversions (I simply haven't thought to do it yet, shame on me).  If I can get his whole empire Confucian it should be possible to flip him through espionage or diplomacy.  I don't think that will eject him from the Apostolic Palace, but it will crumble his voting power, which is all I need to veto whatever proposals he puts through.

This, incidentally, is part of The Plan.  I didn't build the Palace, but it's a real threat.  Consequently, I am now considering a concerted campaign of converting Shaka, Asoka and Zara Yaqob (the only Hindu rulers) to get rid of their bloody votes and leave the Papacy irrelevant in global politics.
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A Thing

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Re: Civ IV - Let's Try England: The Confucian Restoration
« Reply #68 on: April 14, 2016, 02:19:02 pm »

Zara needs to go, he owns the pope and therefore is a villain by proximity, and innocent Britons died writhing, tormenting deaths because of his pointless plots. Also, from a pragmatic standpoint we can't unite Britain with a petty king in the way, so unless he has a change of heart and bends the knee, I don't see a future with his petty kingdom surviving.
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Re: Civ IV - Let's Try England: The Confucian Restoration
« Reply #69 on: April 22, 2016, 04:13:48 pm »

Hell of a busy week.  Here's a little preview of things to come.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Re: Civ IV - Let's Try England: The Confucian Restoration
« Reply #70 on: April 23, 2016, 12:31:19 am »

Quote
I can't prove it was you, so I don't have a casus belli...

Set up an Anti-pope and claim the Apostolic Palace to make the Anti-Pope the true Pope.
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Re: Civ IV - Let's Try the United Kingdom: The Enlightenment
« Reply #71 on: April 24, 2016, 01:56:19 am »


Zara has Astronomy, annoyingly, so he can extend his influence out past Britain.  He doesn't have gunpowder yet, though, so his Unique Unit isn't in play yet.
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Re: Civ IV - Let's Try the United Kingdom: The Enlightenment
« Reply #72 on: April 24, 2016, 02:17:14 am »

Does England get some superpowered ship in Civ4, like it does in Civ5?
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Re: Civ IV - Let's Try the United Kingdom: The Enlightenment
« Reply #73 on: April 24, 2016, 02:41:03 am »

Does England get some superpowered ship in Civ4, like it does in Civ5?

If I remember correctly, it is a unique rifleman instead.
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Re: Civ IV - Let's Try the United Kingdom: The Enlightenment
« Reply #74 on: April 24, 2016, 02:46:49 am »

Does England get some superpowered ship in Civ4, like it does in Civ5?

If I remember correctly, it is a unique rifleman instead.

Iituem said it was a Red Coat, an upgraded rifleman.
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