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FUCK YES LET'S LEAVE GET HYPE YEY

Casual yes, let's leave and get independence done with

Meh, probably just scribble all over my vote ballot to spite tryhards

Casual no, let's remain and get integration done with

FUCK NO LET'S REMAIN GET CALM YEY

[TD1]

Annoyance at this, though I am admitttedly a hormonal stew dependent on my parents for political opinions, I would tentatively call understandable.

Heh, sorry if I came across as confrontational. But how older people react to "stupid old fogies" is probably similar to you hearing "angsty hormonal stew of a parentally-guided blank slate."

[Max™]

I guess it's weird as a USian, I like lots of German things (though in the P1 vs 918 fight I'm all Macca), and even have heritage going back there (along with Scottish and Native American), but I totally get the skeptical position of countries getting the shaft from Germany. What was the term? PIIGS?

I just can't figure out where the UK, which already has a unique arrangement where they get lots of the EU membership benefits without all of the stuff that goes with it, thought this was a good idea. They've already got their own currency, their own travel policies and such, how in the hell does giving up the access to that market and lobby help them?


As for the Scottish thing, it seemed like a case of "well, the UK is in, if you leave them you need to get back in with us" while now it would be "hey, we don't want to jump ship with them" so the EU could totally make them jump through all sorts of hoops legally... BUT if they wanted to give the finger right back to the UK for voting out, making it easier to let Scotland stay would be a hell of a way to do it.

[Azkul]

The way you speak about it in the post gives me the impression that you view the EU more as a way to make the world stay at 1912 with Europe in the centre rather than as a way to accept that the world is changing.

Well yes, my views are eurocentrist in the sense that I identify as european, I was born and raised and live in europe, so I don't think it's strange I want europe to be more prosperous and influential.
I don't believe european culture is inherently superior or exceptional, however, unlike how "Eurocentric" is often used.

My point about eurocentrism was more about nationalism within europe, Britain especially still retains some semblance of being "separate" from continental europe, my point was that unlike in 1912, european nations aren't global colonial empires, they need to set their sights closer to home and co-operate with their neighbours, not maintain an arrogant sense of superiority, a hangover from colonialism.

(I'm not entirely sure of the magnitude of this elsewhere in europe, but I feel this attitude has affected british politics significantly over the previous decades)

[EnigmaticHat]

It's not as if everyone over 30 suddenly decided to screw posterity, their children and their grandchildren.

I'm sorry, but this adequately describes the world we live in.  The only part that's wrong is the word "suddenly".

Seriously tho, while its true that wealthier people (which includes older people) will suffer more if the economy tanks in terms of money lost, they have a disposable income cushion.  In terms of actual human suffering the poor have more to lose if the economy tanks, because while they have fewer assets to depreciate, they also don't have that cushion to protect them from consequences.

Of course some young people can tap into the wealth of the previous generation in terms of aid from their family, but... some can't.

[Leafsnail]

I'm not saying that older people voted out of spite, but it's a lot easier to vote for high and mighty principles like ARE SOVEREIGNTY over economic practicalities when you aren't going to have to endure the negative effects on the jobs market and cost of living for 40 years.

[hector13]

I'm not saying that older people voted out of spite, but it's a lot easier to vote for high and mighty principles like ARE SOVEREIGNTY over economic practicalities when you aren't going to have to endure the negative effects on the jobs market and cost of living for 40 years.

I don't think it's that simple, really.

Anyhow, this is literally going to be the precedent, so nobody can know what the effects are going to be - positive or negative - for a good long while yet.

[TD1]

Many old people are the poor people. People on their pensions can not afford to have them cut, more often than not. Whilst richer in possessions, their income is directly reliant on the economy.

[Orange Wizard]

Seriously tho, while its true that wealthier people (which includes older people) will suffer more if the economy tanks in terms of money lost, they have a disposable income cushion.  In terms of actual human suffering the poor have more to lose if the economy tanks, because while they have fewer assets to depreciate, they also don't have that cushion to protect them from consequences.

[Frumple]

Many old people are the poor people. People on their pensions can not afford to have them cut, more often than not. Whilst richer in possessions, their income is directly reliant on the economy.

Sure, many old people are poor. Not really in question. Thing is. While many are. Many, many more young people are, as well. Somewhere to the tune of about twice as many, at least.

So yes. They're rather significantly less likely to be existentially hurt by this. And go figure, they were significantly more likely to give it the go ahead. Has been point. Not that poor old people don't exist.

[Max™]

I'm sorry, I'm gonna need you to take your facts and reasoning and condense it into a few buzzwords.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

"Elderly vote real democracy pigfucking neoliberal globalism responsibility"

[TD1]

That information relates, significantly, to the household. Older people are more likely to be in a stable household situation, more likely to be married and thus pooling resources or at the very least more likely to have contributing grown up children. Besides this, whilst a younger person can work for an increased income, the level of production, and therefore income, an older person can achieve is significantly less. If their money or possessions are at risk, they aren't going to be able to replenish them at anything like the rate of a younger version of themselves.

By the way, MSH, I'm interested in hearing your views on Wales. There hasn't really been much said any where, but it shocked me that it voted leave. I assume you voted in, however? If you've gone over this already, sorry - just link me to it.

Edit: Whoops, ha. I mistyped and said MSH probably voted out.

[Playergamer]

can we just stop blaming people for voting for what they want to happen.

thank you.

[mainiac]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

XD

[Harry Baldman]

By the way, MSH, I'm interested in hearing your views on Wales. There hasn't really been much said any where, but it shocked me that it voted leave. I assume you voted in, however? If you've gone over this already, sorry - just link me to it.

Edit: Whoops, ha. I mistyped and said MSH probably voted out.

I think North Carolina actually voted Leave at the end of the 18th century or so, but I'm not quite sure.