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IF YOU COULD VOTE TO LEAVE OR REMAIN WITHIN THE EUROPEAN UNION AS A SUBJECT OF HRH (PBUH) WITH PERMANENT RESIDENCE IN THE UK OR CITIZENSHIP ABROAD, HOW WOULD YOU VOTE?

FUCK YES LET'S LEAVE GET HYPE YEY
Casual yes, let's leave and get independence done with
Meh, probably just scribble all over my vote ballot to spite tryhards
Casual no, let's remain and get integration done with
FUCK NO LET'S REMAIN GET CALM YEY

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Author Topic: Breeki British Brexit thread  (Read 154477 times)

Cthulhu

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Re: British Brexit Thread: Hype replacement bus services in operation
« Reply #345 on: June 19, 2016, 03:10:22 pm »

We muricans could've warned you about that.

Congress is total shit, except for my congressmen who are great because they vote for my local interests.  Multiply that by fifty states.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: British Brexit Thread: Hype replacement bus services in operation
« Reply #346 on: June 19, 2016, 03:18:35 pm »

I got a Brexit leaflet which brings up the migration numbers and includes a map on the back which highlights Syria and Iraq, insinuating that future migrants will come from the ME.
That doesn't seem very disingenuous given that the EU is fining countries that won't take their prescribed number of 'refugees', though. Also, you seem to be implying that if we were to leave then the drop in EU-migrants would be replaced by migrants from elsewhere, rather than total immigration actually dropping - or am I misinterpreting you?
Illegal migrants, but unless the EU did something stupid like give away EU passports to Syrian and Iraqi migrants en masse we'd not be affected to the level Germany is. Most of ours will continue to come from groups that already have citizenship in the EU or made it to Calais and are trying to cross illegally; I actually think by focusing on Syria and Iraq they focused on a sexier but smaller issue than wider migration. To add to that, there is much more to concerned with from home-grown "European" jihadis lolling in and out of the Schengen Area than Syrians taharrush bants (which you just can't put on leaflets, not sfw). Some girl on Qtime set the Politicians on board reeling with this one killer Q; why is it that we let anyone with EU passports into our country irrelevant of whether they're skilled or unskilled, extremist or moderate, criminal or militant, favouring Europeans over skilled Indian doctors?

Poor lolberal dems, I like them very much, but they consistently make such blunders :[
I'd honestly be surprised if they ever got into a position of power again. That said, I'm sure they'll always have some supporters. I had a friend from uni who I knew to be an intelligent guy, and he voted Lib Dem in the last election. Which to me is like voting in UKIP, watching them do absolutely nothing to get us out of Europe, and then voting them in again. Seems a bit mental to me, but meh.
>not voting UKIP
>current year
Absolutely haram
I doubt they'll ever get into power either, but I gotta appreciate lolberals wherever they are. They try so hard, but not enough, and in the end it doesn't even matter - zero nimbleness. Sure I disagree with them on most all issues, but they try to do good with sincerety :P
Put it this way - they got rekt for having to apologize endlessly for breaking their promise, but I like them for that, rare to have a politician willing to apologise for fucking up

Jo Cox's murderer gave his name in court as "Death to traitors, freedom for Britain".
Also, CNN go that awesome quote:
Quote
In a nation with tightly controlled gun laws and few homicides linked to weapons, Cox's attack was especially jarring.
I guess Brits just use their teeth for most of their homicides?
Mostly knives, lots and lots of knives. Followed by bats, occasional hammers, every three years or so a sword. Guns aren't too uncommon but they're usually related to gang stuff, as far as I can tell this is the first non-state sanctioned assassination involving a gun for the UK in a long while, last time we had something similar to this, someone called a police officer over (and then shot the police officer).

Maybe everyone in the court is lying and it's a false flag.
Britain was a false flag created by Hollywood to invent historical roots for the USA

David Cameron insisting that he'll still be PM if we vote for Brexit. Hah, well, god loves a tryer eh?  I guess he'll find out. USA Today are claiming Brexit has a 20 point lead at the moment - though I'd be surprised if it were really quite that high.
He'll be governor of the ECB before he places his toxic hamsculinity in our dialogue

Quote from: Dodgy Dave
Asked whether he could stay in his post in the event of Brexit, he said: "Yes. I think it's very important that the individual careers of individual politicians don't get caught up in this question."
I bet you do mate! I bet you do - you and Gideon.
"I think it's very important that my career doesn't get blown up in this question." lel

What, getting everyone in court to lie? That sounds like it'd be a lot of hassle compared to just paying someone with nothing to live for a couple of mil to do your dirty work, Leafsnail. I'm beginning to think you didn't really graduate at the top of your CIA training class. What would you do if they wanted you to rig the election, start trying to hide tiny men inside all the ballot boxes?
Just steal the ballot boxes and call everyone who investigates racist lol

To be fair, it's better to just ignore the Argentines on this. Their claim to the Falklands is so thin Sadiq Khan would have it banned from London ads as unrealistic. And if every country start asking for old claims, the world is going to shit.
Mein sides
The logic behind this is if you negotiate, you give legitimacy to their claim

UK doesn't have enough missiles to make the world burn. Hell, its nuclear doctrine is all about making one (1) single city (i.e. Moscow) burn.
Our nuclear doctrine is make 200 cities burn then fuck off to Australia

Well, part of our nuclear doctrine was that no one knew how many cities we could burninate, but then Obama sold our nuclear serials to Russia, then Moscow made those details public
Thanks Obama

Precisely.
Edit, well that and a bit more.  The EU says it wants things and then actively works against it's stated objectives.  And then it gets angry at voices of dissent to this absurdity.
I laughed my arse off today when Brexin was in London filming a nice old Greek lady about how good the EU was. Not for Greeks in Greece xD

Speaking of which, walking around you wouldn't be able to tell that much has changed. One of the funnier conversations I had today was with a Brexin campaigner who was a businessman, a businessman who wasn't at work because everyone at his workplace was waiting to see what the result was before getting back to work. Very nice chap, worried about losing his European passport to the UK or losing access to London regulatory standards, we had quite the laugh when I suggested he should've been doing business abroad in the Commonwealth then he'd be still at work xD!
Interesting as well how persuasive the pro-European, distinctly "European" identity the cosmopolitan Londonistanian lolberals and lolbertarians find. What was it, that Londonistan is France's sixth largest city? Haha

More news, Sky at 6PM has Corbyn on, being asked questions by a "young audience" which is highly suggestive of them having preselected young labour party members

Sheb

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Re: British Brexit Thread: Hype replacement bus services in operation
« Reply #347 on: June 19, 2016, 03:37:58 pm »

Hey, LW, whats your opinion on the fact that the ref aint bindingm do you thing Porky would dare not invoke article 50 in case of a narro Brexit victory?
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mainiac

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Re: British Brexit Thread: Hype replacement bus services in operation
« Reply #348 on: June 19, 2016, 04:09:41 pm »

Ah, but who is 'the EU' here? Because a lot of the time what's perceived as the EU working against itself really is national politicians abusing the supernational processes and institutions.

No it's not.  The specific politicians say they want things.  They then proceed to do things that make what they want impossible.  You always leap to make excuses for them.  It's bullshit.  It's not you being cynical.  It's you ignoring reality because they tell you to.

Look, it's many steps but each of them is simple.  The various politicians say that they want Greece to service debt that used to be privately owned and is now mostly publicly owned.  So they want a certain amount of money to flow out of greece.  But the thing is that there isn't much money in Greece.  You can't squeeze blood from a stone.  The dynamics of capital flight and whatnot are complicated but what they boil down to is really simple: if there isn't much money in a country, you can't get a lot of taxes and send them abroad.  It's also really obvious.  So any policy that is predicated over reducing the amount of money in greece is not going to work.  This leads us to the central fact they blithely ignore year after year:

Any money you want to take out to Greece needs to come from somewhere

I'm not talking "spend money to make money" or Keynesian stimulus or anything fancy like that.  I'm talking just simple, grade school arithmetic.  Money in has to be greater then or equal to money out or money shrinks.  There greek pool of capital can't shrink anymore.  So where is Greece going to get new money?

1) Public transfers: This can be all sorts of things.  Debt forgiveness.  Cost sharing.  Subsidies.  At the end of the day they boil down to the same thing, Greece's government having more money or fewer obligations.  Your politicians keep saying they hate this and dont want to do this.  They are doing it, just ineptly hiding it.  They reduce the obligations and then say "look we didn't give them money!"  But who cares if they didn't give them money?  They reduced the obligations.  It's the same fucking thing.

2) Decrease private money out of greece.  Syriza wants to do this.  Despite the fact that the EU doesn't want this, it slowly happens anyway.  But it happens as a byproduct of incredible human misery because Greece isn't able to leave the Euro.  Everytime that Greece becomes 1% poorer, it spends 2% less on imports.  This ratio could be increased, and Syriza desperately wants to increase it (since it means Greece doesn't need to be as poor) but such policies are a complete non-starter outside Greece.  Well not everywhere outside Greece.  The IMF, ECB and US Government would be on board with all sorts of policies to smooth this.

This would also be really, really easy to effectively set up.  At the extreme a tiger team could probably create a special tarrif commision in under a week, staff it entirely with non-greeks and accept those revenues as debt service.  Greece wouldn't need to do anything other then agree.  It's crude but it shows just how simple the problem would be to solve if anyone outside greece actually believed a word of what they said.

3) Create money within Greece: "money" refers to a lot of capital assets beyond holdings of euros.  It's possible that by appreciating the value of greek assets you can make more "money" in this sense in a sustainable way.  Think of it like this, if you buy stock in Coca Cola and that stock goes up in value, you have made money without taking it from anyone.

This is the outcome that everyone says they want.  However actions speak louder then words.  They have created an environment of unprecedented hostility towards greek domestic growth.  I'm not talking about spending money or investment or tax incentives or anything else.  What they have done is tell anyone thinking about investing in greece that Europe is going to fuck up your investment JUST TO BE AN ASSHOLE.  Not to get anything out of it.  Just to be punish Greece, they are going to ruin investments.  Would you want to invest in Greece under those conditions?  If politicians in Berlin or Brussels actually cared about the results they would have been screaming their heads off about the ECB not filling it's legal obligations.

4) Increase private money flows into Greece: In theory outside money could attempt to invest in Greece.  However such investments are difficult thanks to the situation outlined in 3.  And furthermore the price of greek assets is ridiculously depressed so such private inflows would be an enormous transfer of wealth away from the Greek people.  Actually, I think Europe likes the idea of making Greece poorer so I wonder why we haven't seen more of this.

And that's it.  Those are the four things.  Either money goes to the government, the private sector spends less, the private sector creates new assets or the foreign capital flows in.  Those are the four options.  One of them has to happen.  It's that simple.  Your politicians say they absolutely dont want number 1.  But they refuse to do anything to support 2 and support policies that make 3 and 4 even worse.  Let's put this in equation form for a sec:

T + I + G + P = 0

Now, middle school algebra...

T = - (I + G + P)

So, now imagine you are an european politician and imagine you are an amoral idiot.  Looking at that really complicated equation right there... if you want to make T as small as possible, should you pursue policies that make I, G and P bigger or smaller?

Honestly, when I think about this I start to wonder if maybe it just would be better if the European Union broke apart.  Because you guys have proven yourself so utterly incapable of doing even basic policies.  The US had these sorts of problem before the constitution and immediately took actions to fix them by making the constitution.  Europe is just making it's problems worse.  You can ignore them for now because it's just Greece and they are really small.  But what is going to happen when the problems hit something bigger?  Greece is the canary in your coal mine and you guys are just calling the canary stupid.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2016, 04:13:32 pm by mainiac »
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Loud Whispers

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Re: British Brexit Thread: Hype replacement bus services in operation
« Reply #349 on: June 19, 2016, 04:30:21 pm »

Hey, LW, whats your opinion on the fact that the ref aint bindingm do you thing Porky would dare not invoke article 50 in case of a narro Brexit victory?
There is a small chance that Osborne and Cameron are going to be sore losers and literally destroy the country by cutting spending for everything and paralyzing government

I think we had a good run if they do

"It is time for the British people to have their say. It is time to settle this European question in British politics." - David Cameron, I suppose unsaid: "But say the right thing."

Pointless hypotheticals imo. Basically if Brexit wins and Cameron pulls that, this country will become Spain, only with less sun and more rain.

Quote
After numerous phone calls and emails, we finally got this response from a Government spokesperson: “It is vanishingly unlikely that there would be tie, with exactly equal numbers of votes cast for each outcome, and there is no specific provision for one under the European Union Referendum Act 2015 or the Political Parties, Elections and Referendum Act 2000.”
If we vote to remain, will Cameron's renegotiated deal with Brussels be legally binding?
According to the Government website,  our new settlement with the EU is not a binding EU treaty or EU law in itself.
Sort of illustrates the problem in regards to the EU and national democracy lol. Interestingly the mobilization campaigns in London have been extensive and great, so I wonder how the country fellows are fairing with their efforts. I like the slogan the EC have for this referendum: "You can't miss it."

Quote
The government could decide to put the matter to parliament and then hope to win the vote, Green says. In the scenario of Britain's EU membership being put to a Westminster vote, barring no dramatic change in allegiances, it is likely that MPs would vote to keep the country in the 28-nation bloc.
This is because the vast majority of the 650 MPs identify as Europhiles and would likely support a motion position to protect Britain's place in the EU.
Pro-EU MPs could even argue, ironically, that ignoring the public's will would be parliamentary sovereignty in practice — something that Leave campaigners argue has been conceded to Brussels. 
Alternatively, ministers could attempt to negotiate an updated EU membership deal and put it to another referendum. Finally, the government could just choose to totally ignore the will of the public.
I've gone on for a long while about how many hurdles have to be crossed to get independence, and not just one in name. Most worrying about MPs who work with the EU is that if they sink this ship they don't have to go down with it, being able to just move to a job in the EU, so it'll be interesting to see where their ultimate loyalties lie lol if it really gets to that. Here's hoping it doesn't

Quote
The UK government may thereby seek to put off the Article 50 notification, regardless of political pressure and conventional wisdom.
This has to go down as one of the largest pieces of small print in British political history.
The overwhelming majority of the British public is probably totally unaware of this legislative loophole. As far as most Brits understand, Britain will no longer be an EU member if Leave wins next week's referendum.
Interestingly, parliament choosing to ignore the British public isn't as unthinkable as conventional wisdom leads us to believe. In fact, according to the BBC, MPs have already discussed the possibility.
Speaking to the BBC earlier this month, an unnamed pro-EU MP said: "We would accept the mandate of the people to leave the EU. But everything after that is negotiable and parliament would have its say. The terms on which we leave are entirely within my remit as a parliamentarian and that is something for me to take a view on."
The most likely scenario I see in such an event is the MPs declare independence but keep all the EU legislation and obligations to the EU we have, ensuring our independence is only in name and that we will still continue with integration within the EU despite "independence."

Also I'm pretty certain it's the end times because 2 months after making some Brexit case to a youtube commenter, they replied back saying they changed their mind and would now vote Brexit. Never in my life have I seen anything like that.

Shadowlord

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Re: British Brexit Thread: Hype replacement bus services in operation
« Reply #350 on: June 19, 2016, 06:44:33 pm »

I like the slogan the EC have for this referendum: "You can't miss it."

Be there or be square!
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Helgoland

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Re: British Brexit Thread: Hype replacement bus services in operation
« Reply #351 on: June 19, 2016, 09:17:50 pm »

The various politicians say that they want Greece to service debt that used to be privately owned and is now mostly publicly owned.
Wait, you really think they are this stupid? Everyone knows Greece won't be able to pay back its debt - it's an open secret, albeit one that the average German voter is trying very hard to stay ignorant of. The real political objectives aren't economic at all - try 'preserving the EU', 'avoid handing out blanc cheques', 'keeping France from collapsing', and you're hitting closer to home.
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I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.

mainiac

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Re: British Brexit Thread: Hype replacement bus services in operation
« Reply #352 on: June 19, 2016, 11:30:39 pm »

Wait, you really think they are this stupid? Everyone knows Greece won't be able to pay back its debt - it's an open secret, albeit one that the average German voter is trying very hard to stay ignorant of.

Cool story bro.  Meanwhile in the world of "actual policy" they have spent 6 years letting the world burn while clinging to this position.

I dont really care if one is that stupid for reals or actually a genius cunningly duplicating the actions of a moron.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2016, 11:33:11 pm by mainiac »
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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Orange Wizard

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Greece is gradually reducing the budget deficit. It's still a crisis, but not irreparable. Long term goal is obviously stability of the EU, which IMO is vastly preferable to letting member states crash and burn because muh nation, muh money.
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Shadowlord

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So John Oliver thinks brexit is a bad idea.

Not that anyone will care. :P
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martinuzz

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I dunno about this whole brexin / brexit. Regardless the outcome I doubt much will change.

It's a bit like fish and chips with brown or white vinegar. Might look a bit different, but basically is the same shit wrapped in old news.
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LoSboccacc

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I don't understand it, it looks like people believe leaving the EU means border closing and leaving behind regulations?

That doesn't make any sense. Those policies are almost always bilateral, do-ut-des kind of deal. Can't have your cake and eat it too, etc.
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Orange Wizard

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The UK already opts out of half the EU deals - they are having their cake and eating it too.
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SirQuiamus

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The UK already opts out of half the EU deals - they are having their cake and eating it too.
Precisely.

It's gruesomely ironic that Brexin Labour are still using arguments like "we need the EU's human/workers' rights safeguards and blah blah" when the Brexin Tories are grimly determined to get rid of all that red tape come what may.

I guess that's how British politics works in general: the Tories are in the cupboard eating the cake with gusto while Labour guards the door and assures everyone that they still have it.
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Starver

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I particularly liked that Question Time audience member's description of Cameron as a '21st-century Neville Chamberlain'. I bet that stung.
Haven't seen that yet.  Did anyone point out that without Chamberlain's deliberate policy of re-armourment, post-Munich, Churchill would have not had such a strong position to battle from when everything came to a head?

He also instituted the Factories Act to give workers paid holidays and other benefits we still enjoy today.

If only Cameron were a Neville Chamberlain, but I don't see it.
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