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Author Topic: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are over. ThtblovesDF wins!  (Read 36069 times)

ThtblovesDF

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
« Reply #300 on: May 01, 2016, 04:53:44 pm »

4 Nations just starting at each other while everyone gets there doom army ready. And I'm just here, 70 gold per turn avaliable, getting my globals stolen, being ociana, no ranged weapons and all that.

(Everyone has NAP with everyone, now they all run out)

Edit: Peeked at the new turn, reallllllly had to disspell that, huh ? No chill
« Last Edit: May 01, 2016, 05:04:28 pm by ThtblovesDF »
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chaoticag

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
« Reply #301 on: May 01, 2016, 05:36:54 pm »

Yup, got attacked by Ulm two turns after our NAP ended. How completely unexpected. We've more or less geared into the do or die end of the game now, so things are taking a turn for the interesting as Ulm seems to be provoking Oceana and have launched a small force to fight me. So rude. You're not getting any cookies.

Anyway, I had gotten some eyes in the sky and that seems to have more or less exposed quite a few of the spies sent toward me the past few turns, which to some extent was expected, what wasn't expected was how often they were being set before dying ignobly on the other end of some of my patrolling troops. It was something of an uneasy peace in the meantime, but people more or less stood by their non-agression pacts minus a weird little misclick. The next few turns are going to be interesting at least.
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Shadowlord

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
« Reply #302 on: May 02, 2016, 06:49:46 am »

This invasion, at least, was launched solely because you started diseasing the entire world, chaoticag. ;)

My spies were able to determine which of your two thrones it was. As for all the dead, most of those were scouts, were they not? I attempted to send one spy to Frosted Peaks, but he appears to have died just like the scouts before him did.
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<Dakkan> There are human laws, and then there are laws of physics. I don't bike in the city because of the second.
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ThtblovesDF

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
« Reply #303 on: May 02, 2016, 07:02:51 am »

I want to send angry fish-animals at someone for ruining my global but I don't know who dun it and everyone blames everyone else. Time to throw a dice.
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chaoticag

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
« Reply #304 on: May 02, 2016, 07:31:34 am »

I still say it's Shadowlord since he's got golems up and the highest astral income besides me. Doesn't seem like van would have had the infrastructure for it given that unless they had native astral recruits they'd need to empower into it then empower another two time at least in order to cast a dispel. I know for a fact I haven't done it since why go picking more fights than I absolutely need to, plus I have better uses for pearls right now.
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Shadowlord

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
« Reply #305 on: May 02, 2016, 07:52:23 am »

Dispel's an incredibly expensive waste of pearls if you ask me.
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<Dakkan> There are human laws, and then there are laws of physics. I don't bike in the city because of the second.
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chaoticag

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
« Reply #306 on: May 02, 2016, 08:24:28 am »

Dispel's an incredibly expensive waste of pearls if you ask me.
Not too expensive when you're turning in 16 pearls or more a turn and recruiting crystal mages. You'd be able to cast dispel very often with that and it'd just take a starshine skullcap. Besides, you're in a better position to think about the long game aren't you? You really won't need the pearls as badly once you can summon iron angels instead, and you already have some incredible forging benefits. What would cost me 5 pearls costs you 1, and what costs me 10 would cost you 6.

Besides which I'd also shown Oceania some score graphs last turns in terms of gem income, I'll go ahead and send him some more info on how it can't be me.
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Culise

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
« Reply #307 on: May 02, 2016, 10:15:23 am »

Forging benefits don't affect ritual costs, though; Dwarven Hammers would be loads better if they did.  Given how they're already really good, that's saying quite a bit. 

That said, yes, unless Vanarus goes with an astral build on a mobile pretender chassis (to go out and search for free; the astral site search spell is one of the most expensive of its kind), it has very few native options short of empowerment, and I think it costs something like at least 100-120 gems to hit S3 (50 gems to reach 1, then I forget what the costs are for 2 and 3).  Unless you have immortals (since they can't be permanently killed inside your dominion) or you're at a threshold value to unlock key items or spells that you cannot bootstrap into in any other way, it's almost never worth it; I'd go one further and say it is never worth it to pay the 50 to break into a new path in multiplayer, since you should typically be able to arrange a trade with someone else unless you're in dire straits, in which case it likely won't pay off in time to save you.  You also end up with a sort of catch-22 with initial empowerment, where you can't find most sites to gain gem income (unless they have crosspaths) until you have the paths, and you can't gain the paths to find sites until you have the gem income.  Alchemizing might be a consideration, but it is even worse for your cost-benefit ratio due to turning that 100-120 gems to what is at the worst a 200-240 gem cost.  Rus doesn't go full astral until LA and Bogarus; Vanarus' only native option is a Gamayun (Conjuration 5, S2s that require S3 to summon) or Vilas (Conjuration 7, S1 requiring A4 or N4 to summon). 

By the bye, since I mentioned those two conditions, I don't meet all the criteria.  I can't give away my paths by saying I went astral or no because it will allow anyone watching to infer my bless (astral, after all, has an opportunity cost), but I can tell you that I definitely went for an immobile chassis, to wit a Monument.  This has informed much of my strategy, to wit my obsessive concern over my capital's security.  My early-game passivity was largely due to the failure of effective negotiations with USEC's Ulm, which led to what I referred to as a "deathball" stuck on my capital. 

Also, since we're talking Dispel, I actually think it is worthwhile in some circumstances.  A minimum of 30 gems to force an opponent to waste anywhere from 50 to 100 gems is a good trade, as long as you succeed.  Some rituals are bigger targets than others as well; Utterdark is an obvious target, but Eyes of God a bit less so.  Also, don't forget how paths above the minimum add to the cost.  A minimum-dispel of 30 gems cast by an S4 counts like a dispel of 35 gems cast by an S3.  This works the other way, too; if, for a random example, an S4 caster is casting an S3 global ritual, that 1-path difference counts for 5 extra gems against any attempt to dispel or steal the ritual, even before you count any extra gems you added in.  This also scales linearly; an S9 casting Dispel without any extra gems possesses six paths more than needed for the ritual, which means that it counts like a S3 casting Dispel while burning an extra 30 gems.  Both global rituals and dispels are more cost-efficient the more powerful your casters are in that path.  That's one of the weakness of countries with many but shallow paths; lots of flexibility, not much specialization. 
« Last Edit: May 02, 2016, 10:18:23 am by Culise »
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ThtblovesDF

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
« Reply #308 on: May 02, 2016, 10:28:58 am »

Trade was really low, i.e. not a single one of you traded with me, even though i offered plenty of fair 1 for 1 deals on gems, etc : /

Edit: For a newb game, we sure are all sharks in the water.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2016, 10:33:41 am by ThtblovesDF »
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Culise

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
« Reply #309 on: May 02, 2016, 10:31:46 am »

Trade was really low, i.e. not a single one of you traded with me, even though i offered plenty of fair 1 for 1 deals on gems, etc : /
Same.  Apart from some early-game trades with Arcosephale, no one was really interested.  I wonder if Crazy Ivan's trades were a bit too expensive; I know at least one player opted for empowerment instead of trading with me.
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chaoticag

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
« Reply #310 on: May 02, 2016, 12:35:00 pm »

Hmm, well, I'm so used to either having people on a team that trades are not necessary, or breaking into some paths I would not have had access to otherwise through semicreative means. Though there are some trades I had wanted to do for a bit but waiting for a suitable time to do them on.

Sorta anyway, I had given Ulm a magic item as a welcome gift into the game once a replacement happened so we'd at least have a stable border. I was really worried that one of my neighbors would have invaded during that slugfest with Marignon. I also feel I kinda blew your trades away Culise, eheh. Not sure if anyone was watching those fights. Prolly ThtblovesDF since he thought I had air access for a bit.
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Delta Foxtrot

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
« Reply #311 on: May 02, 2016, 02:06:07 pm »

I either didn't have any in the first place or used up all the gem types that Oceania was interested in. As for the rest... Vanarus was a steady neighbour and everyone else attacked me. So that :P

I had a minor stockpile of Fire by the end but that's it.
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ThtblovesDF

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
« Reply #312 on: May 02, 2016, 02:15:09 pm »

Sorry about that, but you had the undeadz and they scared me.

Sidenote: If you are a mess like me and reply to a pm-mail with your 2h. file like a tool, tarn will email you and tell you to use the forum.
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Shadowlord

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
« Reply #313 on: May 02, 2016, 02:21:29 pm »

Yeah, that item you sent me was a starshine skullcap, which allowed me to make more astral boosters with my astral smiths.

Also, I usually site search, but in this case I used the spells instead to find as much as possible as fast as possible.

Also, it helped that Marignon sent me all their gems and gold just before they started staling every turn. :P

Thtblovesdf: Lol @ that sidenote
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<Dakkan> There are human laws, and then there are laws of physics. I don't bike in the city because of the second.
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ThtblovesDF

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
« Reply #314 on: May 02, 2016, 03:25:13 pm »

New turn, not much for me to do, how is everyone else?

Also, darn, that must have been a nice gem-boost.
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