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[Tack]

Literally putting an engine on them.
Or maybe giving them performance enhancing drugs.
It's a sliding scale of metaphor.

Hot damn. You better watch out Gunin, you're gonna get a rep as a naysayer.

Remind me what I'm saying nay to.

Bunches of stuff. Some of it pretty illogical stuff, granted, but you have been shutting some people down in an either purposefully or accidentally rather brusque tone.
Neither planning to fetch examples nor pick a fight here, but my joking reprimand got called out I guess here's a more serious one. It's a thread on theoreticals. Don't tell people why it wouldn't happen, help puzzle how it could.

[i2amroy]

just... Being able to carry more stuff, or the same amount of stuff but using less man-energy. I think you can't understate the importance of making an infantryman more able to travel and tote his gear without becoming exhausted.

This is like... the reason why you would want light-powered hauling frames on your infantry of the future (not power armor, the whole armor idea is pretty much a stupid way to throw away all of the benefits that such a frame would grant you; if you want a tank than build yourself a tank, it'll perform in just about any environment better than stuffing a person into a metal coffin would).

As noted honestly the biggest problem is just battery life; current designs can support several hours worth of power time, but we're still a ways away from being able to do 8+ hour conflicts without needing to swap batteries. Rather than widespread implementation our next step will probably be to implement them as part of an attachment to a small mobile vehicle group which would be responsible for carrying batteries and charging them while the suits give them a ground power level and amount of finesse that a large group of tanks would lack.

[GiglameshDespair]

Bunches of stuff. Some of it pretty illogical stuff, granted, but you have been shutting some people down in an either purposefully or accidentally rather brusque tone.
Neither planning to fetch examples nor pick a fight here, but my joking reprimand got called out I guess here's a more serious one. It's a thread on theoreticals.

Can't say he's seemed rude to me.

Don't tell people why it wouldn't happen, help puzzle how it could.

Sometimes things don't work. If it's not realistically possible, it's not realistically possible, and it's perfectly legitimate to point that out.

Consistency is key for a story. Suspension of disbelief is best preserved by remaining as close to reality as possible for aspects that exist in real life. While you can say "anything is possible in the future" that takes it in to sufficiently-advanced-science stage.

He's actually been rather helpful - he's explained things and provided links to things that explain it more.

[Parsely]

As noted honestly the biggest problem is just battery life; current designs can support several hours worth of power time, but we're still a ways away from being able to do 8+ hour conflicts without needing to swap batteries. Rather than widespread implementation our next step will probably be to implement them as part of an attachment to a small mobile vehicle group which would be responsible for carrying batteries and charging them while the suits give them a ground power level and amount of finesse that a large group of tanks would lack.

Yeah it's less that we don't have batteries that could provide adequate charge, more that the ones that could are wayyyy too bulky and heavy. And again we find ourselves in the "if only batteries were more efficient" situation. If the troops find themselves out of supply, they'd have to either abandon their exos and any extra equipment they couldn't carry without them. It's a very similar issue to what you have with ground vehicles anyways so it's not as if this is an unfamiliar or untenable problem. If the gain in stamina/maximum payload for an infantryman is worth the logistical strain of supplying them with the gear needed to maintain their exos then it will eventually be adopted.

[i2amroy]

Yeah it's less that we don't have batteries that could provide adequate charge, more that the ones that could are wayyyy too bulky and heavy.

It's not that bad currently. For example the HAL Suit (which is currently used commercially in nursing homes, hospitals, and factories and has just started being used in a modified form for construction work within the last year or so) currently has a battery use time of around 4-5 hours and the whole suit+battery combination only weighs around 22lbs (10 kg). I'm sure if you designed the suit to have swappable batteries than you could have people carry 1-2 spares each (for another 20 lbs or so, which even with factoring that in you would still have a significant weight limit increase over unaugmented) which could extend your active time up to 8-12 hours. It's just that such a design would cost some $20k or so per soldier right now, which is simply too expensive to be tenable, even with out of control military funding in the US right now.

To further clarify my previous statement it's not specifically the battery life per se, but rather the "battery life per cost" that is the true limiting factor here. We can make batteries that are light enough and have a long enough lifespan to perform in the way that we need them to already, it's just that until we either get further work done in extending the lifespan of the battery or reducing the cost (or a little of both) to bring the overall ratio down then the ratio is simply too high for practical military use.

[Egan_BW]

I wish that we spent all of our current military budget on like ten guys, but gave them all really cool things with civilian applications.

[Sheb]

Yeah it's less that we don't have batteries that could provide adequate charge, more that the ones that could are wayyyy too bulky and heavy.

It's not that bad currently. For example the HAL Suit (which is currently used commercially in nursing homes, hospitals, and factories and has just started being used in a modified form for construction work within the last year or so) currently has a battery use time of around 4-5 hours and the whole suit+battery combination only weighs around 22lbs (10 kg). I'm sure if you designed the suit to have swappable batteries than you could have people carry 1-2 spares each (for another 20 lbs or so, which even with factoring that in you would still have a significant weight limit increase over unaugmented) which could extend your active time up to 8-12 hours. It's just that such a design would cost some $20k or so per soldier right now, which is simply too expensive to be tenable, even with out of control military funding in the US right now.

Is it though? The current cost of an infantryman's equipment is about 17.000 apparently, but the Pentagon is already testing ways to make that more expensive, including smart guns, heads-up display etc etc.

And then of course stuff like HAL would be great for troops like artillerymen.

[Amperzand]

Realized I have yet to link to the ever-helpful AtomicRockets website. Also, this particular page is great reading: http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/misconceptions.php

[Sheb]

Actually, the US is develloping a powered armor thing.

Granted, it's intended for a very specific situation (armor the point men when commando invest a building), but it's being develloped.

[GiglameshDespair]

Things being in development isn't a guarantee they'll ever come out, though.

Science and technology officials believe that technologies envisioned for the suit won't be achievable before around 2026; new technologies that need to be developed include next-generation full-body ballistic armor protection materials, powered exoskeletons for mobility and agility, conformable and wearable antennae and computers, soldier combat-ready displays with non-visual means of information display, power generation and thermal management, and embedded medical monitoring and biomechanical modeling. Components made by different companies will have to be made to work together in one suit. Power generation is the biggest problem, as there is currently no light-weight, low-bulk power generation system able to fuel TALOS components.

There's been lots of things that have been in development and never panned out.

[Tack]

-snip-

Can't say he's seemed rude to me.

True. I think I've attributed some different stuff to Gunin accidentally. My apologies.

[chaotic skies]

Here's an interesting idea: cloaking suits. Therm-optic camouflage, I think is what you'd call it. Blocks both vidible and infrared light, making the wearer all but invisible to almost any camera, and any human. Of course, if you're going to go that far, might as well make the helmet have a HUD, and various other accessories, but the main problem is still power; if we could get a stable, safe, compact nuclear generator that's all our problems solved, but we could get some very advanced batteries as an alternative.

[Amperzand]

Blocking the frequency of light the enemy's using to see you makes you look like a black silhouette, assuming they aren't just using a standard radar, in which case I believe it would work.

What you want is refraction, bending light around you in such a way that it continues on its previous path having gotten by you. I believe such behaviors have been demonstrated in labs by perfect cylinders of so-called "Metamaterials" with the specific electromagnetic properties needed.

[chaotic skies]

I was thinking more like refraction actually, yeah. Many, many tiny hologram/camera pairs would work, but then we run into the problem of current holograms; they're fairly simple to set up, but they need space-consuming infrastructure that you wouldn't be able to fit. Dang it light, why can't you just clump together when we want you to

[Egan_BW]

I always wondered why an advanced society wouldn't just make a robot from 100% transparent materials.