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[O.Wilde]

hector13, AbstractTraitorHero, snow dwarf, and Gentlefish have been prodded.

[AbstractTraitorHero]

No I haven't been prodded and don't worry I've been watching but...there's nothing to say right now I feel.

[Persus13]

Is there no extension because of Silthuri's replacement?

Like, I would understand if there's something you're interested in, but you're literally voting for the person that will be lynched... If you want to extend the day, what more do you need to find out? What Silthuri needs? I'm really confused here.

I'm not liking your play, pal. If you were being super engaged in getting communication, that would make sense, but you're not really, so this move makes no sense.

In the majority of games I've played, the mod has extended to allow the replacement time to have input on the game that day. This didn't happen in this game, so I asked about it.

Doomchild:

fillipk, why haven't you posted yet?  You're plotting with your scumbuddy, aren't you?

How serious was this question?

That was an RVS question.  I wanted to ask something provocative, which is what I thought RVS was all about.  You know, say something jarring, try to spur a reaction.

Generally attacking someone for not posting 40 minutes after the game started is not considered great play. See here and here for a hilarious example of that.

What I meant was that'd I be rereading everything and forming new opinions and as such plan what I'd post.

New opinions?  Are you sure you don't mean that you needed to converse with your scumpal and come up with some dastardly scheme to bring down the rest of us townies?

What's wrong with rereading the thread and forming new opinions?

Absolutely nothing.  That was, again, an RVS-style accusation, intended to get a reaction.  One of the things I've learned is that there's a very definite change in tone between RVS and actual scumhunting, and I failed to recognize the timing, leading to me asking broadly accusatory questions when more probing examination is called for.

Alright, good to see you're learning. Why did you consider that an RVS question?

Doomchild is probably highest on my list of suspicions (This was written before snow child posted the post for which I voted him for). I've found some of his questions and scumhunting strategies questionable so far in a scummy way
EP has the highest post count, so according to the notquitethere theory he's probably town, and I have yet to see anything to contradict that possibility.
Lynching D1 is always the best way to find scum in a BM.
The other questions are RVS questions.

So, presumably, you found something(s) in snow dwarf's posts scummier than mine.  What was it/were they?

The same post you subsequently voted him over.

[hector13]

I've basically said everything I think I can say today. Kinda stuck between EP and Gentlefish for my vote, but nobody else is going for it as a result of snow dwarf.

Can't say I'm against the lynch, though... Not enough for it to add my vote to the wagon though.

[doomchild]

Doomchild:

fillipk, why haven't you posted yet?  You're plotting with your scumbuddy, aren't you?

How serious was this question?

That was an RVS question.  I wanted to ask something provocative, which is what I thought RVS was all about.  You know, say something jarring, try to spur a reaction.

Generally attacking someone for not posting 40 minutes after the game started is not considered great play. See here and here for a hilarious example of that.

What I meant was that'd I be rereading everything and forming new opinions and as such plan what I'd post.

New opinions?  Are you sure you don't mean that you needed to converse with your scumpal and come up with some dastardly scheme to bring down the rest of us townies?

What's wrong with rereading the thread and forming new opinions?

Absolutely nothing.  That was, again, an RVS-style accusation, intended to get a reaction.  One of the things I've learned is that there's a very definite change in tone between RVS and actual scumhunting, and I failed to recognize the timing, leading to me asking broadly accusatory questions when more probing examination is called for.

Alright, good to see you're learning. Why did you consider that an RVS question?

From what I've seen, there isn't always a lot of truth to RVS questions.  They aren't an actual accusation intended to establish fact, they're a (usually) baseless accusation intended to evoke a reaction, which may provide some kind of clue to the askee's mental state.  If it gives you something concrete to use, you try and widen the crack with other questions.  I don't actually know what the accepted practice is otherwise, so I defaulted to asking another one.

Doomchild is probably highest on my list of suspicions (This was written before snow child posted the post for which I voted him for). I've found some of his questions and scumhunting strategies questionable so far in a scummy way
EP has the highest post count, so according to the notquitethere theory he's probably town, and I have yet to see anything to contradict that possibility.
Lynching D1 is always the best way to find scum in a BM.
The other questions are RVS questions.

So, presumably, you found something(s) in snow dwarf's posts scummier than mine.  What was it/were they?

The same post you subsequently voted him over.

Okay.  I didn't really get that before.

[Elephant Parade]

This post is going to be a bit rushed. On the other hand, I have survived TEST APOCALYPSE (two major tests *and* a missed provincial, all over two days), so my schedule should be free-ish for the next while—i.e. the rest of the game, unless it drags out for as long as VM did. I don't think that will happen.

Still looking for EP and Snow Dwarf's reasoning for voting DoomChild.

(I couldn't find the original question--I'm assuming this is it.)

IIRC, I was voting him because he kept attacking lurkers near-exclusively, even after being told multiple times that it was a scummy thing to do. After a really brief skim of his recent posts, it looks like he's stopped? I'm going to unvote and reevaluate, for now.

Hector13: I am working on a response to that giant post you directed at me, but I thought I should post something before the end of the day. You addressed two specific questions to me a second time in this post, so I'm focusing on them for now.

1. You honestly have no inkling either way (town or scum) on any other player in the game?

I don't think I ever said this. It was more that I felt I didn't have a strong enough read to answer a question about "[my] strongest read", even if some of my reads were technically "strongest" in one direction or the other. Also, again: both of my main suspicions had recently failed to pan out, one for an impossible-to-predict reason.

2. As the most active player in the game, why haven't you done the most scumhunting, as opposed to "as much as everyone else"??

So, you're saying that because I did dull stuff like aid newbies (no ICs were around, at the time) and bug lurkers, I should have also done extra scumhunting? I don't think that's how it works. In an ideal world, I would have had enough theories/hunches/whatever to attack everyone, but I didn't, so I did a more regular amount of scumhunting. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it was still more than most people had done, though.


snow dorf lynch: I don't know if he's scum. To me, he reads as "bumbling newbie". As for whether he's a bumbling town newbie or a bumbling scum newbie: I don't really know. Either is possible, I think, and I'm not really caught up with his more recent posts.

Extending: If other people really want to, I don't mind. I'm not sure how much we'd get out of it, but we did get a replacement, I guess? Not sure if they'll be able to contribute anything, but there's no harm in giving them the chance; also, snow dorf was recently prodded for inactivity, so he may not have had a chance to respond. Extend.

[Persus13]

snow dorf lynch: I don't know if he's scum. To me, he reads as "bumbling newbie". As for whether he's a bumbling town newbie or a bumbling scum newbie: I don't really know. Either is possible, I think, and I'm not really caught up with his more recent posts.

Have you read the post where he said "If you think I'm Mafia why not wait until tomorrow to lynch me?" Because I shared your opinion on snow dwarf until I saw that post.

[Elephant Parade]

snow dorf lynch: I don't know if he's scum. To me, he reads as "bumbling newbie". As for whether he's a bumbling town newbie or a bumbling scum newbie: I don't really know. Either is possible, I think, and I'm not really caught up with his more recent posts.

Have you read the post where he said "If you think I'm Mafia why not wait until tomorrow to lynch me?" Because I shared your opinion on snow dwarf until I saw that post.

Yeah, that's definitely a point against him.

[O.Wilde]

Discussion quiets as the light streaming in from the windows turns pink, and then orange. A silence falls over the car, the click of tracks endlessly droning on, just underneath you. As the final rays of sun slip towards the ceiling, the man you all have chosen bows his head, leaning it against the seat. As you get him up and walk him towards the door, he murmurs 'Don't forget the rose'.

Day 1 has ended.

Votes:

Elephant Parade (0) -
Gentlefish (1) - hector13
doomchild (0) -
webadict (0) -
snow dwarf (5) - Gentlefish, webadict, AbstractTraitorHero, doomchild, Persus13
hector13 (0) -
AbstractTraitorHero (0) -
Persus13 (0) -
Silthuri (0) -
No lynch -

Not voting -  Silthuri, Elephant Parade

snow dwarf has been lynched. He was town.

You're just an ordinary person, trying to get to Geronimo, Arizona. All this train robbery bullshit has really put a kink in your plans. If you make it out alive, you're gonna be late. If you don't... well that won't matter so much anymore.

You are town.

Win condition: You win when all of the mafia are eliminated.

The gunshot is sudden, loud, and sobering. The Pinkerton tells you that you got the wrong man. Eight sets of eyes flick downward, some guilty, some hiding their joy. The car is quiet, nobody smiles. Eight people lean back deeper into their seats, but only some of them fall asleep.

Night 1 has begun.

Night 1 ends in 24 hours. (At 11:59:59 Friday, April 8th, CST/GMT -5 (Or when all night actions have been submitted and processed.))

[O.Wilde]

It is around 2 AM when the scream runs throught the train. A few confused seconds later, the lights come on, dazzling you. As you look around, you notice something is wrong. One of you is missing. You scramble around, looking for the missing person. One of you glances out the window, and notices something. As you round a bend in the tracks, you can see, clearly illuminated in the deep red light of a train signal, a body. You are quickly whisked away from the sight, disappearing into a clump of trees. As you all return to your seats, it becomes clear who the body belonged to.

Persus13 has been killed. He was vanilla town.

You're just an ordinary person, trying to get to Geronimo, Arizona. All this train robbery bullshit has really put a kink in your plans. If you make it out alive, you're gonna be late. If you don't... well that won't matter so much anymore.

You are town.

Win condition: You win when all of the mafia are eliminated.

The Pinkerton does not comment on the missing passenger, just tosses you some food and stares you all down. The click of the door is just as ominous and final as before. Seven of you remain.

Day 2 has now begun.

Day 2 ends 4/13/16 at 23:59:59 in 5 days.

[O.Wilde]

Day 2 has now begun.

This means you guys can talk....

[hector13]

webadict

I'll probably die tonight. If snow dwarf is mafia, then you'll all be in good shape tomorrow. If not, then, yeah, we'll get to have fun talking to each other in dead chat.

Hopefully, this is WIFOMy enough for the mafia to not kill me.

Not really sure what you were trying for here. Looks oddly suspicious though, considering you're not dead.

Also, I you didn't really answer this quuestion:

Your interaction with ATH (starting here and ending there - between posts 192 and 215, basically) reads rather strangely.

I mean ATH is offering up more or less the same reasoning as snow dwarf for voting someone, but goes further in that he offers some evidence. One piece of evidence, to a bunch of RVS questions (there was one real question "who do you think is scum/town?" in that list) that snow dwarf didn't answer.

How come snow dwarf draws your ire and ATH gets a free pass?

doomchild

And as for the reason why I haven't jumped on the bandwagon, between being sick and wanting to be more sure before I vote again, I'm taking my time.

...

I don't see how this isn't you claiming to be mafia, snow dwarf.

You understand why this looks odd, yes?

Perhaps you'd like to explain how that's taking your time?


Elephant Parade

Spoiler: spoiler 'cause big (click to show/hide)

Hector13: I am working on a response to that giant post you directed at me, but I thought I should post something before the end of the day. You addressed two specific questions to me a second time in this post, so I'm focusing on them for now.

1. You honestly have no inkling either way (town or scum) on any other player in the game?

I don't think I ever said this. It was more that I felt I didn't have a strong enough read to answer a question about "[my] strongest read", even if some of my reads were technically "strongest" in one direction or the other. Also, again: both of my main suspicions had recently failed to pan out, one for an impossible-to-predict reason.

The game has been going for two days. Also, I have had suspects for a large portion of the last 24 hours; I just don't have any right now—Vector turned out to have just been busy, and ATH recently got much more active.

and

Who do you think is least likely to be scum in other words who do you think is town?

Other than "lol myself", nobody really reads as town to me, at the moment. There hasn't been enough activity, yet.

though

Two days isn't all that long. And again, I have (and had) inklings that some people might be town.

... inklings you didn't share.

Telling me I might be wrong is all well and good. How am I wrong? You have town reads. Who are they? What makes you think they are town?

You weren't voting anyone at the end of D1. If you were doing as much scumhunting as you claim you were, I would've hoped you'd have a scumread after a week of play (alright fine, half a week what with tests) but apparently not. How did this happen?

2. As the most active player in the game, why haven't you done the most scumhunting, as opposed to "as much as everyone else"??

So, you're saying that because I did dull stuff like aid newbies (no ICs were around, at the time) and bug lurkers, I should have also done extra scumhunting? I don't think that's how it works. In an ideal world, I would have had enough theories/hunches/whatever to attack everyone, but I didn't, so I did a more regular amount of scumhunting. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it was still more than most people had done, though.

But you're not an IC, so everything you say is subject to analysis. This is why I asked webadict for an "IC Voice" so we know when he's not trying to spin us into our graves. It was also the start of the game, a 5 day D1 (over last weekend) so... that's plenty of time for an IC to pop up eventually.

Considering most of your "scumhunting" was RVS questions

I also didn't say you should've done extra scumhunting. I said you should've done the most scumhunting. Like I said before, most is a relative term; you had done the most posting in the early game, so I expected you to have done the most scumhunting in the early game.

My first really second because my first was awful BM game I was scum, and padded out my post count and town cred by helping out the newer players. It's not inconceivable that you're doing the same here.

Link to my previous questions, in case you forget to answer them. 4th time's the charm..?

I guess I'll start where I ended last time: Gentlefish needs to respond to this:

Gentlefish

...These three things combined make me think you're indulging in confirmation bias (if town) or are just trying to manufacture evidence against him (if scum), neither of which are particularly great.

- You are right; it was not a strong argument when I look back over it; I forget to assume ignorance over malevolence and I read scum where I should be reading newbie. I have since backed off on DoomChild.

Did you do this? What was your conclusion? What posts made you think that?

- In regards to looking over EP's posts, I am afraid I have not yet. The thing about posting a lot makes it difficult to sift through. Thank you for reminding me that I have to do this.

So... another "why are you voting for x over y" question: why snow dwarf over EP?

I mean, this is the second time EP has been in a list of things you've apparently found scummy, but you vote for someone else?

You're right. I have my FoS on EP but snow dwarf quickly voted doomchild with little fanfare or reasoning, and has so far been dodging the questions regarding it. I can see at the very least that EP responds to accusations.

That's all well and good, I like being right but... this does nothing to alleviate my suspicions. These seem like "correct" answers, and they always bother me in mafia.

I'm not sure assuming anything in a game of mafia, even a BM, is a good idea. Does being new preclude someone from being scum?

Any effort at all into reading over EP's posts? 'cause if you say you're gonna do something, it's generally a good idea to do it. It just looks to me like you want to avoid commenting on EP's play so far. Not wanting to comment on another player doesn't come from a town viewpoint, in my opinion.

Did you know the voice of Admiral Ackbar died yesterday, speaking of traps? I'm not voting for you because you're less suspicious than snow dwarf, but it's a town's duty to follow up on all suspicious activity, right? That is hard to do D1, because there's nothing to really grab a hold of, other attacking other people's attacks. I never like lynching D1, but it's necessary for the town, in order to glean some information from the posts. I was simply asking you which posts of his feel off, to you. Maybe not in so many words nor so clearly, but I would like to see which posts of his put you off. Is that too much to ask a townie?

Emphasis mine. I generally don't mind it when people say they're town when they're asked to provide a list of town reads (I actually loathe it, but I've seen people from n00bs to vets do it, so it's a null tell) but it's notable when they volunteer the information on their own.

Would it be fair for me to assume you read webadict as town?

Silthuri

Thoughts on yesterday?

Who do you think is town? Why do you think this?

Who do you think is scum? Why do you think this?

PPE: Calm down, bro, I'm getting to it

On a more serious note... seriously guys?

[hector13]

EBWOP

Smeg. Link to the questions I asked EP that haven't been answered yet, in case people want to follow along my thought processes later...

[hector13]

EBWOP 2

Also kids, don't have 6 "post reply" tabs open at once, it gets very confusing very quickly.

[Persus13]

Bah.

Continue the fight, and I'll pop in to give non-specific IC advice if I see fit.

Clarification, is webadict now being considered an IC?