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[RedKing]

WE'RE ALL GOING DOWN HARDER THAN ATLANTIS GLORY GLORY BOGO

You could always hire some Dutch water engineers. Discount prices for EU members!

that was a "Coventry-during-the-Blitz" level burn

[MonkeyHead]

I mean, I get why our politics is crazy -- we've got 300+ million people scattered across 10 million km² and we're basically seven or eight cultural regions forced to co-exist uneasily under the same roof.

You guys have about twice the population of California in about half as much space. Is it the compression factor? Too many people in too small a space, things heat up, people get kind of stir-crazy, that sort of thing? You still haven't elected a foreign-born bodybuilder and action film hero to be your leader though. So California has one up on y'all there.

This, and the fact that the UK contains within said small space and dense population a huge number of dividing lines. North v South, Left v Right, lingering vestiges of the class system, England v Scotland V Wales V NI, Urban v Rural... the list goes on and on. In the US, political thought is split into two polar camps. Each camp may hate each other, but within your camp you are safe and secure. here in the UK, almost nobody has the same ideological identity. A neo-middle class New Labour Blairite from the South East will have little in common with a traditional working class ship building Old Labour socialist from the Gorbals, despite being on similar bits of the political spectrum. Just look at the divisions in the Tory cabinet happening as we speak as a result of this EU referendum. A single issue splitting people dramatically despite overall close political beliefs. Such is the chaotic way of a subtle and nuanced system where everyone else is wrong but you. *shrug*

[Grim Portent]

I mean, I get why our politics is crazy -- we've got 300+ million people scattered across 10 million km² and we're basically seven or eight cultural regions forced to co-exist uneasily under the same roof.

You guys have about twice the population of California in about half as much space. Is it the compression factor? Too many people in too small a space, things heat up, people get kind of stir-crazy, that sort of thing? You still haven't elected a foreign-born bodybuilder and action film hero to be your leader though. So California has one up on y'all there.

I attribute it to the vast increase in voter disinterest over the past 2-3 decades. I remember seeing graphics that pointed out how many constituencies here would have been won by 'abstain/no vote' in the last GE if that were an option and it covered something like 70% of England, and big chunks of Wales and N. Ireland. A huge portion of voters, mostly left wing ones if they match the general trends of their constituencies, just don't vote anymore.

I've seen a few theories bandied about for why it's the case, but the one that makes the most sense to me is that the left wing public largely feel they have no party that really represents their political viewpoint. New Labour didn't, the Tories didn't. The Lib Dems sort of did at the GE before last and got a decent surge in support with their pro-welfare and public services stance, but that collapsed after the coalition government. That's a long period of time with no one the left wing public really identified with.

That's sort of going away now, with the rise of the SNP in Scotland, and maybe Corbyn in England, depends on what effect he has on the Labour party in the long term, but for now it makes for more than a little political weirdness as the social democrat demographic tries to assert itself again in a country that has viewed the word socialist as more than a little dirty for some 20+ years.

There's also the matter of the British Right fracturing over the issue of the EU, which actually poses an interesting situation from a Scottish perspective in addition to giving us our own version of Teapartiers in the form of UKIP, the BNP and various groups like Britain First. Scotland is majority in favour of staying in, but there's a strong movement in England for Brexit, as it is so lazily called. It's often chatted about up here that if Scotland votes to stay in the EU but the rest of Britain votes to leave it would be justification for another independence referendum. The risk of that is something of a sword over the head of the Westminster parties, as opening themselves up to accusations of being responsible for destroying the British Union could be a pretty big way to lose votes later down the line.



Ninja'd while typing.

I mean, I get why our politics is crazy -- we've got 300+ million people scattered across 10 million km² and we're basically seven or eight cultural regions forced to co-exist uneasily under the same roof.

You guys have about twice the population of California in about half as much space. Is it the compression factor? Too many people in too small a space, things heat up, people get kind of stir-crazy, that sort of thing? You still haven't elected a foreign-born bodybuilder and action film hero to be your leader though. So California has one up on y'all there.

This, and the fact that the UK contains within said small space and dense population a huge number of dividing lines. North v South, Left v Right, lingering vestiges of the class system, England v Scotland V Wales V NI, Urban v Rural... the list goes on and on. In the US, political thought is split into two polar camps. Each camp may hate each other, but within your camp you are safe and secure. here in the UK, almost nobody has the same ideological identity. A neo-middle class New Labour Blairite from the South East will have little in common with a traditional working class ship building Old Labour socialist from the Gorbals, despite being on similar bits of the political spectrum. Just look at the divisions in the Tory cabinet happening as we speak as a result of this EU referendum. A single issue splitting people dramatically despite overall close political beliefs. Such is the chaotic way of a subtle and nuanced system where everyone else is wrong but you. *shrug*

Let's not forget the Scottish Nationalist vs British Nationalist divide (not quite the same as England vs Scotland), it's only a recent development but it's certainly influenced a lot of the political blather in the past few years given the referendum and subsequent SNP domination of Scotland. Doesn't come up outside Scotland as much since the referendum and GE, but it'll almost certainly roll up again in a little while when the EU referendum and Scottish Elections come around.

[RedKing]

I mean, I get why our politics is crazy -- we've got 300+ million people scattered across 10 million km² and we're basically seven or eight cultural regions forced to co-exist uneasily under the same roof.

You guys have about twice the population of California in about half as much space. Is it the compression factor? Too many people in too small a space, things heat up, people get kind of stir-crazy, that sort of thing? You still haven't elected a foreign-born bodybuilder and action film hero to be your leader though. So California has one up on y'all there.

This, and the fact that the UK contains within said small space and dense population a huge number of dividing lines. North v South, Left v Right, lingering vestiges of the class system, England v Scotland V Wales V NI, Urban v Rural... the list goes on and on. In the US, political thought is split into two polar camps. Each camp may hate each other, but within your camp you are safe and secure. here in the UK, almost nobody has the same ideological identity. A neo-middle class New Labour Blairite from the South East will have little in common with a traditional working class ship building Old Labour socialist from the Gorbals, despite being on similar bits of the political spectrum. Just look at the divisions in the Tory cabinet happening as we speak as a result of this EU referendum. A single issue splitting people dramatically despite overall close political beliefs. Such is the chaotic way of a subtle and nuanced system where everyone else is wrong but you. *shrug*

Meh, that's not that different from the US. Republicans and Democrats are not monolithic, as the current primary campaigns so demonstrably reveal.
The Republicans are an amalgam of wealthy elites, poor uneducated whites, rabid nationalists, religious conservatives, Constitutional fundamentalists, economic libertarians, and rural isolationists.
The Democrats are an amalgam of wealthy elites, minorities, civil libertarians, LGBTs, environmentalists, religious liberals and atheists, young people, nanny staters, internationalists and a few bona fide Leftists (very few).

If we had a system where third parties had any kind of power on par with the Lib Dems, we'd easily have five or six major parties (Rich Center-Right, Rich Center-Left, Social Conservative, Socialist, Green, Libertarian/Randite).

[Loud Whispers]

That's sort of going away now, with the rise of the SNP in Scotland, and maybe Corbyn in England, depends on what effect he has on the Labour party in the long term, but for now it makes for more than a little political weirdness as the social democrat demographic tries to assert itself again in a country that has viewed the word socialist as more than a little dirty for some 20+ years.
There's also the matter of the British Right fracturing over the issue of the EU, which actually poses an interesting situation from a Scottish perspective in addition to giving us our own version of Teapartiers in the form of UKIP, the BNP and various groups like Britain First. Scotland is majority in favour of staying in, but there's a strong movement in England for Brexit, as it is so lazily called. It's often chatted about up here that if Scotland votes to stay in the EU but the rest of Britain votes to leave it would be justification for another independence referendum. The risk of that is something of a sword over the head of the Westminster parties, as opening themselves up to accusations of being responsible for destroying the British Union could be a pretty big way to lose votes later down the line.

I find your analysis of the situation rather strange. After the Tory victory solidarity was ironclad and after the EU referendum was announce solidarity expanded beyond the Conservatives. Today stands a coalition of a cultural-marxist Scottish Muslim-convert, a working-class hard eurosceptic civic nationalist, a neocon progressive liberal with pragmatic euroscepticism, a Jewish old-money libertarian conservative and the BOGO amongst many more.
Likewise have they been telling you what happened down south with Corbyn? Because in the short term he caused a schism with feminists when he balked out on giving half his cabinet to women, caused a schism with the pro-renewal faction when he refused to back down on Trident (the last argument over this was 12 days ago), caused a schism with the oldguard when he gave every cabinet position to his allies and forced them to resign, caused another schism when he said Paris was a result of Western intervention, caused a great massive sleuth of resignations and just one month ago three shadow ministers resigned on live TV in protest of Corbyn's purge of moderate MPs. The left-wing of Britain has been in a state of constant revolt against itself and I can't even cheer because nothing good's come out of it. Except maybe reducing opposition to the independence movement, but I want to see Labour reunite the left soon, before the Conservatives grow complacent and the Left permanently fractures into crazy warbands.

This, and the fact that the UK contains within said small space and dense population a huge number of dividing lines. North v South, Left v Right, lingering vestiges of the class system, England v Scotland V Wales V NI, Urban v Rural... the list goes on and on. In the US, political thought is split into two polar camps. Each camp may hate each other, but within your camp you are safe and secure. here in the UK, almost nobody has the same ideological identity. A neo-middle class New Labour Blairite from the South East will have little in common with a traditional working class ship building Old Labour socialist from the Gorbals, despite being on similar bits of the political spectrum. Just look at the divisions in the Tory cabinet happening as we speak as a result of this EU referendum. A single issue splitting people dramatically despite overall close political beliefs. Such is the chaotic way of a subtle and nuanced system where everyone else is wrong but you. *shrug*

Oi m8 this is not exactly bread taxes, this is the single most important decision the British people will be voting on since Parliament last voted on beheading the King :D
When Jeremy Corbyn and David Cameron stand by and support each other on this you know something's up :D

Doesn't come up outside Scotland as much since the referendum and GE, but it'll almost certainly roll up again in a little while when the EU referendum and Scottish Elections come around.

REFERENDUMS FOR DAYS WOLOLOLO

that was a "Coventry-during-the-Blitz" level burn

No wonder Cali's en fuego in floods, you substitute fire for moistness

I mean, I get why our politics is crazy -- we've got 300+ million people scattered across 10 million km² and we're basically seven or eight cultural regions forced to co-exist uneasily under the same roof.
You guys have about twice the population of California in about half as much space. Is it the compression factor? Too many people in too small a space, things heat up, people get kind of stir-crazy, that sort of thing? You still haven't elected a foreign-born bodybuilder and action film hero to be your leader though. So California has one up on y'all there.

There was a time where our politics was mostly just centrists vs centrists for about 30 years, I would place the turning point at the 2008 financial crisis when the US housing bubble popped. From then on out the allied centrists had to do unpopular things like austerity, immigration began rolling out faster and faster, the left started getting destroyed for supporting the right-centrists and in the south both left-centrists and right-centrists became under threat by populists on far-right and far-left lines. To top it all off, it also marked the sudden rise of the banterist politicians - the main ones you already know for example, but Boris Johnson notably was not considered a serious contender for London and yet was elected in 2008 all the same as there were no other candidates. So we had the rise of these quite banterist figures who defy all logic yet continue to be successful in getting things done, BEWARE BOGO

[RedKing]

So he was Trump before Trump?

[Grim Portent]

So he was Donald "Did you notice that baby was crying through half of the speech and I didn’t get angry?" Trump before Donald "Did you notice that baby was crying through half of the speech and I didn’t get angry?" Trump?

He does have similarly stupid hair.

[Loud Whispers]

So he was Trump before Trump?

No, entirely different story, BOGO is an anomaly that defies explanation that pursues different policies and strategies to achieve them. Likewise nobody expected him to succeed, but also no one really tried stopping him. Trump is a lot easier to explain as he's a professional provocateur and anticipates the actions people would make to stop him in order to profit off of them. With expert rhetoric Trump paralyzes his opponents with sharp venom, whereas Boris just... Rhubarbs his way through politics. Like that time where some protestors tried egging him and they all couldn't hit his bobbin and weavin, Trump would just have them roughed up whereas Boris used their poor aim as justification to increase physical education spending. BORISATIONAL BORISOOSER BISHOP OF BANTERBURY is the master of having fun with politics (so much so that for his election the tories had to hire an Aussie adviser just to stop Boris making too much banter) whose done an great job, also I don't like the comparison between Boris and Trump when the former's a proggy for migrants whilst the latter's a bouncer for migrants. I don't want to start new Godwin's
More similar would be our Nick Griffin, except Nick Griffin today is a dismal failure whose party was demolished by UKIP after they had blundered through every political stage and picked apart themselves. Nigel Farage on home soil reverts to his natural behaviour of banter and beer but when he goes abroad to Europe he does that sort of Trumpesque jimmy rustling where he provokes europhile MEPs as a career. I don't think the UK has a Trump yet, but peeps are making comparisons between ebin lePen and Trump

He does have similarly stupid hair.

HIS HAIR GIVES HIM POWER

HE IS SAMPSON REBORN

[Vattic]

I know so many left wing people who say they love Boris, but hate that he's a Tory. The only worry is that once in power he turns out to be an evil genius.

I mean, I get why our politics is crazy -- we've got 300+ million people scattered across 10 million km² and we're basically seven or eight cultural regions forced to co-exist uneasily under the same roof.

You guys have about twice the population of California in about half as much space. Is it the compression factor? Too many people in too small a space, things heat up, people get kind of stir-crazy, that sort of thing? You still haven't elected a foreign-born bodybuilder and action film hero to be your leader though. So California has one up on y'all there.

Too much history in the Old World, why do you think your ancestors left?

Likewise have they been telling you what happened down south with Corbyn? Because in the short term he caused a schism with <almost everyone>

The impression I get locally is that a lot of old school liberals just may vote Labour instead of abstaining like they usually do (the hate for New Labour is strong). Frankly I'm no fan despite leaning left, but Labour have no chance around here anyway LibDem v Con forever.

[Loud Whispers]

I know so many left wing people who say they love Boris, but hate that he's a Tory. The only worry is that once in power he turns out to be an evil genius.

With his genius there is no need for morality, shhhhhhhhh sweet child of Spring, only Boris now, let the Rhubarb rub you to sleep

The impression I get locally is that a lot of old school liberals just may vote Labour instead of abstaining like they usually do (the hate for New Labour is strong). Frankly I'm no fan despite leaning left, but Labour have no chance around here anyway LibDem v Con forever.

The Labour party membership is increasingly in line with the views of their leader. 68% of Labour members opose renewal of Trident, 64% think trade unions should have more influence, 58% say they wouldn’t vote for any Labour leader if they had supported airstrikes against Syria. Recent recruits are even more Corbynite – over 80% of those who’ve joined in the last year are anti-Trident, over 70% think unions should have more influence and would only support a leader who opposed airstrikes in Syria.
A leftwards consolidation of the Labour party membership however risks opening up a significant gulf between the views of members and voters. The most obvious example of that here is immigration. On salience, health and the economy are seen as two of the three biggest issues facing the country by Labour members, Labour voters and the general public. But on immigration 60% of the general public think it is a major issue, 46% of Labour voters do, just 17% of Labour members do; 78% of Labour party members think immigration is good for the economy, only 41% of Labour voters do, only 29% of the general public.
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/

Purging your own party's moderates unsurprisingly fucks up your appeal to the entire country, limiting yourself to grabbing a larger share of the fringe-left whilst losing touch with the majority. The libdems could get away with this because their specialty is being a large share of a small percentage, but for labour it's just sad, pointless self-destruction of a party who formerly had broad appeal and rule over our country for so long. Good for Corbyn's career, but the party's future is increasingly in jeopardy. Now I wonder where all those moderates pushed away will go. Libdem/green, tory, civics, or abstain? It's been one month since mass resignations, one week since the last public row and infighting and one day since Corbyn was last attacked for supporting an organization that crushed the Greek anti-austerity movement. He's havin a laff. In the wake of 2008 when parties started adopting ideological lines, only labour saw fit to begin dismantling all of her own MPs who did not fit with the leader's ideology. For all their sheer, sheer fuck ups with cultural enrichment and corruption I actually once supported them and would have more sympathy with them were their EU stance more pronounced, but they've steadily been drinking more and more kool-aid under a leader who gives no fucks and just wants his ideology to win. This must be what it is like for GOP members to watch Trump dissect the Republicans, it's grueling to see infighting after infighting, every headline being the latest cabinet member or MP declaring 'I have decided I can better help labour outside the party.' We're seeing people who have fought for labour for decades being forced out by a ideologue :/
I'm not even going to go into how dismally the Labour party, the one that introduced mass cultural enrichment for the purpose of replacing their working class support with immigrant support, managed to lose both under Corbyn. Black, Asian, Jewish support for Tories has been increasing whilst Corbyn's had extreme friction with the likes of Chuka Umunna, Sadiq Khan, David Mencer e.t.c. at a time when Labour cut off one leg to hold onto a crutch it began sawing away at! Why would you do this?
Labour needs their own Boris or their moderates to hold on desperately in order to save the party before it is hemorrhaged to death by zealots.

*EDIT
We live in a world where our conservatives are multikultural diverse fuckers doing their own thing whilst our left-wing party is ruled by an old white man who kept women out of his cabinet and purged his party of its ethnic support
And I find it kinda funny
I find it kinda sad
The dreams in which I'm BOGO
Are the best I've ever had
I find it hard to tell you
I find it hard to take
When people run in circles
It's a very, very mad world, mad world

[Vattic]

Boris is beyond good and evil, rhubarb rhubarb?

I agree that Corbyn's got no chance of being Prime Minister and hope I never have to eat those words. Would be nice to see some collective strength on the left again and some chance that it won't be Tories all the way down for the foreseeable future.

[Loud Whispers]

Boris is beyond good and evil, rhubarb rhubarb?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I agree that Corbyn's got no chance of being Prime Minister and hope I never have to eat those words.

Now you've gone and jynxed it, tomorrow he's President of the Commission!

Would be nice to see some collective strength on the left again and some chance that it won't be Tories all the way down for the foreseeable future.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

As long as they have Boris this is a future I am ok with

Sadly Boris can't live forever, so yes I agree wholeheartedly that the left must regenerate its lost limbs otherwise the UK will not have a stable political future, and Lord knows short-sighted profits has been a bane to human existence long enough. Where did it all go wrong? I mean that metaphorically, not in regards to the whole 2008 crash spawning such political zaniness

[martinuzz]

According to the international organization for migration (http://migration.iom.int/europe/), so far, already 100000 refugees crossed the Mediterrenean sea into Europe in 2016, despite it being wintertime, which makes crossing more cold and dangerous.

Compared to last year, when the number 100000 was only reached in july, it looks like we'll see many more refugees this year than we did last year.

At least 102547 persons came ashore this year on the Greek islands. Most of those come from Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan and Iran. According to IOM, last week, 7286 migrants crossed the Greek-Macedoinian border.
In Italy, 7505 immigrants arrived this year, most of which are sub-sahara africans, and Libyans fleeing the chaos in their country.

Since januari 2015, 940000 migrants have arrived in Greece. IOM expects that number to break a million in march this year.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/dit-jaar-al-100-000-migranten-over-middellandse-zee-naar-europa~a4250165/

[MonkeyHead]

Regarding Boris BoGo McRhubarb Toff...

I think... I think I finally get him. Politics is a game to him. It is a hobby. It is fun and games and banter. He loves it. He is a Tory as he was born a Tory and had Tory drummed into him via posh schooling. A few hundred years ago he would have been in his element as some mad ass governor of a colony somewhere, but alas now as no roles that he was bred for actually exist nowadays he is limited to entertaining himself via democracy and forming himself into some kind of idiosyncratic pastiche of a stereotypical blue blood conservative. People love a clown, and I suspect he knows it. Fuck knows he is entertaining and likeable, and for some people, that is enough, regardless of his politics as people just don't give a shit about politics when Boris is RAHRAHRAHing about the place.

[martinuzz]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

http://www.volkskrant.nl/foto/collignon~p3761431/3618886/