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Scare them into the deeper parts and cave in parts of the cavern, sealing them in

Take out their leaders and try to convince them to surrender

Slaughter them all

Ignore them and look elsewhere

Other (post and specify)

[apiks]

Perception check. Linguist Check. Vorlak Perception check.

[Sirus]

"We should try to talk to them again, but at their own camp. It's possible that the shock of losing several of their own without putting a scratch on us will at least scare them enough to refrain from attacking again. If not...well, better to deal with them now than to let them regroup and attack on their own terms."

[apiks]

"Ehm, Ritiki. The mine, remember?"

[Sirus]

"Yes, the mine. What about it?"

[apiks]

"They live there, Ritiki. They live in the mine which we had our eyes on. How do you suppose we scare them off? Play the big bad monster and force them to migrate? I don't think they're the forgiving type either, what with raiding being their specialty."

[Sirus]

"Forgiveness can come later, if at all. Not thinking about scaring them away, just scaring enough to work with us rather than be killed. They know the mine workings after all, and we don't. We trade food or lumber or whatever they wish for the minerals they produce, they get what they need to live without risking lives in skirmishes against stronger tribes...it will take time for resentment to fade but surely they must see that a mutually beneficial existence is better than open warfare."

[apiks]

"I don't think that people who survive by raiding would agree with your views, Ritiki. They also happen to think you're a little child and won't take you serously. We just killed four of them, Ritiki. Some of them females and 16 old lads. I don't think they'd be happy about that until the end of their lives.

That and you forget something. They can't produce the minerals the mine is for, namely silver. Or did you forget that it was that kind of a mine? They're wererats, how do you expect them to mine it? It'd be forced slavery at the expense of a slow and agonizing death.

James, talk some sense into him!"

[Sirus]

"Oh please, buy some sense yourself! Firstly, there were no children here and females are quite capable of killing; especially in a society like the one you describe where they'd be looking for all the warriors they can find. Your views on gender are surprisingly old-fashioned. Secondly, I can easily prove that I am not a child. Thirdly, perhaps you might not know this but rats are actually quite good at digging. My kind especially can learn how to dig almost without effort. These silver daggers of the Red-Moon's had to have come from somewhere, and the chief's best guess was from this mine, or a place like it. Clearly lycanthropes can handle unrefined silver at the very least, so long as it does not cut them."

[apiks]

"You do realize that I'm the one that brought along Kylie, right? I don't see why you think my views are so old-fashioned if I dared do that. Your current analogy is as good as making your own wife fight. You wouldn't want that, would you? And you said it yourself. In such a society where they need all the people they can get, they need to preserve the females and protect them for obvious reasons even more than in a normal one. And judging by the size of the ratmen, they're a lot bigger than the other clans which are half their size.

I did not imply that you were a child, my good Ritiki. The statement I made was that they see you as a child which is why they likely let it slip about their plans when they sent off Ritcher. I doubt that view will change so easily even if you fed them their own entrails.

I suppose you are right on the last point. Ratmen do have their own unique talents as you mentioned. Still, what you are recommending is cowing them through force. Do you think you can manage it? I can't speak whatever language they speak. Maybe we can install you as the chieftan to avoid bloodshed? In fact, I'm liking this idea more and more."

Arioch gives Ritiki a sly grin at his last words.

[Sirus]

"My wife doesn't fight because she isn't trained to fight. She's a seamstress. I would no sooner send her into battle than I would a confectioner or accountant, meaning only as a last resort. Now that I've spelled this most simple of things out for you, what is your reasoning for the presence of female in this party we killed? If they valued women only for their ability to breed, would untrained women be accompanying scouting/raiding parties which must always be prepared to fight?" He continued on without giving Arioch a chance to respond. "Of course they wouldn't. That would be madness. And no, I have no desire to usurp power over these people. I would find a knife in my back one night. What I wish for is not enslavement, but cooperation. Very few people in this world will raid and fight purely for the pleasure of it; they raid their neighbors because those neighbors have something they want. If we can set up free trade among the weretribes, raiding will cease."

"...hopefully."

[apiks]

"Yes, your wife isn't trained to fight. She's also not a werecreature. When you're one you don't even need to be trained to fight most of the time. Out of ten women how many would be fighters? One? Two? That's a realistic ratio right there, no matter what society. As far as I'm concerned we didn't just fight a squad of females. In fact, a very nice analogy can be made between this female and Kylie. Both exceptions to the ratio mentioned beforehand."

Arioch takes a pause to let what he said sink in.

"You want cooperation with them. That is respectable and I have no qualms with it. Since you so wish we will negotiate with them a second time, however mark my words, in the long-term it is not a good... I think it was investition. I might not be a trader by profession, but my father was one. I caught a few things from him.

There's also the fact that we lack things which they might want. At this point we can't even settle down to procure said things due to them likely going to start to raid us significantly if we do decide to settle down here.

In the end, negotiation it is. Unless somebody has any better ideas or something to add, I suggest we go do so."

A half-serious look is thrown at Ritiki afterwards.

"I hope you have a plan this time around. I just hope it doesn't include you proving your manhood."

Ritiki notices a very small smile on the corner of Arioch's lips. Ritiki feels like facepawing again.

[Sirus]

((Actually, Ritiki feels the urge to have Arioch tied up and presented to the rats as an "apology present" for being a sarcastic git.))

"So what if they be werecreatures? In case you forgot, they're surrounded by more werecreatures, most bigger and stronger than they and also not exactly friendly. There are also giant, dangerous animals that can give even Varg here a run for his currency. Face it, until we came along they were probably near the bottom of the local hierarchy, which means that they would not send untrained people on scouting expeditions regardless of gender.

"At the moment we have no idea what they want. Could be as simple as fish for all we know. That's why it is vital to meet with them, to determine what could get them to stop their raids and perhaps coexist with the other tribes.

"You seem so eager to deny my ideas. Do you have any of your own?"

[apiks]

((Glad to know it's working as intended.))

"I don't recall rejecting any of your ideas. In fact I've only been supporting them. Is all humor lost on you?

That's the thing though. They are people too. People with their own personalities. I'm not surprised at all that there is some female that would want to go out. And hey, maybe she is trained, that doesn't disprove anything I've said. And as you said the females will fight if cornered. In fact, since I mentioned a ratio, it only backs the fact that she was indeed trained as you suggest she is. As for the were blood they have, it does give an advantage in combat, regardless of what you think.

As I said, we will meet with them. What I asked was whether you had any plans for that meeting so it doesn't end up like this one. And please don't include us, in reality me, becoming a captive. I've served my term."

After a moment of silence, Arioch throws another quip at Ritiki.

"If you think I'm bad you should see Martijn in action."

[highmax28]

(12+7) (Linguistics) (6+1) (19+4) ((PM coming your way))

Varg steps in after he picks up a bag off of the ground.

"I know you think they are your kinsmen, but I can promise you, they are not in any way. They're more kin to Martijn than to you. They do not behave like ratfolk or rats; they only look like them. If you thought the same with me, then you would assume I share more in common with wolves, which is far from the truth. We act more like humans would than our animal forms. They only thing that makes them any way like their animal form is they scavenge and hide in the shadows.

If you think they want fish of all things, then I can tell you right now, you're wrong."

He throws the bag at Ritiki's feet and the bag spills out, showing the totems and such.

"They are thieves, be it they took this with or without bloodshed. They kill by sticking to the shadows, striking like a knife in the dark. I've fought them before, and I will not hesitate in fighting them again. They have no honor, and they are a scourge to the clans in this area... Just like they will be to your clan if you settle here and they are not dealt with.

And I don't think you want to subject your wife and child to that, especially since they see you as a child of their kind."

"No need to take this matter personally, Varg Red-Moon.

Now Ewan, what was that you were rambling about? Something about it being 'like home'?"

He moves to Arioch's side before sitting down, Ewan giving a pale look at Vorlak's announcement.

"Its nothing. Don't worry about it.

I think we keep it to the two of you being known to them. It makes it look much more of an intimidating feat to them if two defeated them rather than six and a big cat."

Vorlak gives him a dirty look.

"If I may make a suggestion, we continue sticking to the trees and in hiding, regardless of your choice to stay here or head into their heart. We will tail you as you two go."

Varg sheathes his axe as he scoffs at Vorlak's remark.

"I can see that Ritiki sympathizes with them because he thinks they are his kin. He is sorely mistaken."

[Sirus]

Ritiki's fur bristled at all of the accusations.

"I sympathize with them because they are beings, like all of us! Have we all not fled from those who can and do slay anyone not matching their narrow definition of "people"? I simply don't wish to begin a new life here by doing the exact same thing!" With that, he stomped some feet away from the rest of the group in order to calm down.