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Yes, we need one anyway.

17 (21.8%)

No, we should take that elsewhere and keep this thread as-is.

27 (34.6%)

I don't care, let's see what happens.

34 (43.6%)

Total Members Voted: 75

[SaberToothTiger]

They have almost no international recognition, if any.

[Bohandas]

And there's not a single legit nation in the world that would be unhappy if they disappeared. Even North Korea has allies but IBLIS only has nations that are neutral at best

[Shadowlord]

The fledgling rebelling American colonies only had recognition because Britain had continental European enemies who were willing to support us at the time, and then, of course, when we actually managed to win the revolution, Britain recognized us.

Daesh's doctrine calls for constant endless expansionary war until the apocalypse, no diplomacy, no compromise, no alliances, while declaring the vast majority of the world's population to be apostates in need of genocide. The only relationship they accept is obedience (see Boko Haram), and then apparently only from Sunnis following their extreme ideology (or Christians paying a tax). I can't imagine any state every recognizing them, even if they were desperate to avoid being conquered. Hell, they even consider the Taliban apostates. THE FUCKING TALIBAN - because they have NEGOTIATED! It's incredible.

[Loud Whispers]

Bandits don't recognize borders; nations in turn do not recognize bandits

[Helgoland]

Daesh's doctrine calls for constant endless expansionary war until the apocalypse, no diplomacy, no compromise, no alliances, while declaring the vast majority of the world's population to be apostates in need of genocide. The only relationship they accept is obedience (see Boko Haram), and then apparently only from Sunnis following their extreme ideology (or Christians paying a tax). I can't imagine any state every recognizing them, even if they were desperate to avoid being conquered. Hell, they even consider the Taliban apostates. THE FUCKING TALIBAN - because they have NEGOTIATED! It's incredible.

Eh, a lot of that applies to the early Soviet Union as well. International recoognition as a criterion for statehood is iffy anyway: It would mean that a nation conquering all others would cease to exist along with its last conquest...

[Bohandas]

I could see IBLIS eventually being recognized as a soverign nation by a world Power not wishing to be held accountable for nuking Iraq or Syria.

[SaberToothTiger]

Well, there would be no international, then. It would pretty much say:
"I am a country, motherfucker. I dare you to oppose me, I double dare you motherfucker oppose me once."
And then nobody opposed because everyone was dead.

Ninja'ed by Bohandas.

[smjjames]

Daesh's doctrine calls for constant endless expansionary war until the apocalypse, no diplomacy, no compromise, no alliances, while declaring the vast majority of the world's population to be apostates in need of genocide. The only relationship they accept is obedience (see Boko Haram), and then apparently only from Sunnis following their extreme ideology (or Christians paying a tax). I can't imagine any state every recognizing them, even if they were desperate to avoid being conquered. Hell, they even consider the Taliban apostates. THE FUCKING TALIBAN - because they have NEGOTIATED! It's incredible.

Eh, a lot of that applies to the early Soviet Union as well. International recoognition as a criterion for statehood is iffy anyway: It would mean that a nation conquering all others would cease to exist along with its last conquest...

Except the Soviets weren't out to genocide everybody and after WWII, they weren't out to accquire more territory for themselves (though they didn't want to share Berlin with the others), just spread Communist ideals.

A better example would be the Mongols.

Where's Owlbread, this kind of discussion would be right up his alley.

[Loud Whispers]

I think a contrast can be made with how the PRC gradually became accepted over time as the legitimate sovereign of China versus nationalist China, stuck on Taiwan

[Shadowlord]

"The United States did not recognize the new Russian government until 1933. The European powers recognized the Soviet Union in the early 1920s and began to engage in business with it after the New Economic Policy (NEP) was implemented." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_Revolution

Somebody had to withdraw from WWI in 1917, too, and it happened after the Bolsheviks took control.

Also what smjjames wrote.

[smjjames]

I don't see ISIS carving out their own borders anytime soon and there are plenty of people in Iraq and Syria that don't want to lose a chunk of their own country, including the rebels fighting Assad.

Really, the main difference between early Soviet Russia and ISIS is that ISIS doesn't want to engage in business unless they're pressing a sword to the throat of the person/group they are doing business with.

ISIS's behavior is more in line with the Mongols than any fledgeling state of the past 500 years.

[Bohandas]

The mongols weren't as totalitarian though

[Strife26]

I don't know about that. If cities would roll over for isil, I'd imagine that it wouldn't be very different from the mongol empire at its height.

People don't roll over for that kind of barbarism anymore, however.

[Bohandas]

The Conquest of Canaan m8ght be a good metaphor

[smjjames]

The mongols weren't as totalitarian though

Yeah I know, their ruthlessness was mainly confined to the battlefield.

I don't know about that. If cities would roll over for isil, I'd imagine that it wouldn't be very different from the mongol empire at its height.

People don't roll over for that kind of barbarism anymore, however.

At least the Mongols offered the choice of becoming a vassal.

As for cities rolling over for ISIS, you're talking about Iraq with it's coward military and Syria where there wasn't an unified front and Assad has been ignoring them. For cities that DON'T roll over for ISIS, one word, Kobani.

The Conquest of Canaan m8ght be a good metaphor

You mean where King David united the various tribes and united Judea into one state?