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Yes, we need one anyway.

17 (21.8%)

No, we should take that elsewhere and keep this thread as-is.

27 (34.6%)

I don't care, let's see what happens.

34 (43.6%)

Total Members Voted: 75

[Erkki]

You had gun laws change quite a bit in 2006 - since that over 300,000 weapons have gone "missing" in various ways from getting stolen, falling into rivers and lakes, getting forgotten in the woods and so forth.

TBH, knowing the Commission, I seriously doubt they created this in reaction to the Paris attack, more likely, it's a proposal they had in the pipeline for a long time, and just slapped a reference to terrorism on top. Doesn't really seems much of an issue apart from the semi-auto ban. Hopefully the Parliament will shoot that part down.

Its been on since April, so yeah indeed it wasnt fully put together overnight. Still, terrorism, latest events and organized crime is what is used to reason the directive and restricting legal gun ownership even further... Gun violence itself is not. And objectively speaking, I dont think it even is a problem in most member states. This is not what EU citizens wanted either when stuff was polled in 2013:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

https://mail.metropolia.fi/owa/redir.aspx?SURL=vpJXWXzgKQzF-mHY2rM96S8qnGMCz6KXx52ZUVXTyVULNGqjuvDSCGgAdAB0AHAAOgAvAC8AZQBjAC4AZQB1AHIAbwBwAGEALgBlAHUALwBwAHUAYgBsAGkAYwBfAG8AcABpAG4AaQBvAG4ALwBmAGwAYQBzAGgALwBmAGwAXwAzADgAMwBfAGUAbgAuAHAAZABmAA..&URL=http%3a%2f%2fec.europa.eu%2fpublic_opinion%2fflash%2ffl_383_en.pdf and http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-is-new/news/news/docs/20131021_summary_remarks_consultation_en.pdf

I believe solving gun violence, defining it as a problem that can be tackled with reasonable measures in the first place and combating terrorisism are three different things. Access to illegal full auto weapons is too easy, heck I could get myself one within 24 hours if I for some reason really wanted to. Getting even a bolt action hunting rifle is already half a year and double or more the cost compared to illegal option plus you of course need to pass the tests and get registered as a gun owner.

Yeah me too I'm fine with it except for the stuff related to all semi-autos. I could even add more restrictions to availability/access to semi-auto pistols or shotguns(the crime weapons) but the rifles make no sense. Also, the 5 year license for every weapon thing. Makes no sense for most types, just increases need of bureucracy.

[Starver]

(Is this is going to turn into a Gun Thread?  Please don't let it turn into a Gun Thread.  But while I'm addressing that...)

Then why do you post a wall of text about gun control? 

To try to pre-empt the usual arguments and get back to the business at hand.  Although the 'wallness' wasn't intended, and it might not have been quite what I'd set out to write...

[PanH]

Btw, someone was talking about using a drone for the raid : one was actually used but it failed (it was shot down or something).

[Erkki]

By the way, any news on the conditions of the five wounded police/armymen?

[Askot Bokbondeler]

pre-empt the usual arguments

impossible! you're (unintentionally?) doing the thing where you go like "i'll just have the last word and you all should just shut up about it", and that will never work as intended

[Starver]

pre-empt the usual arguments

impossible! you're (unintentionally?) doing the thing where you go like "i'll just have the last word and you all should just shut up about it", and that will never work as intended

Well, regardless, one of the points I intended to make just so we didn't have to drag it up again (that where guns are ubiquitous already, insta-clampdown gun control just can't work) wasn't read because others came along afterwards with variations on the same theme, and the same on a couple of other (pro/anti) viewpoints I tried to acknowledge just so they wouldn't swamp later discussion.

'Lost in the wall', probably. Tried to do too much with a single post?  Probably.

Thus, also, nobody read the following, from the end:

And the main tragedy is that this is a thread about Paris.  I shouldn't be listening to your agenda nor pointing out my own impressions regarding guns.  Terrorists-are-gonna-terror.  Without access to guns they'd be doing more with homemade bombs, no doubt.  Let's talk about the commonalities between these situations, not start going all Constitutional...

...which still applies (although I don't like the way some of that paragraph was phrased... doesn't quite read how I intended).  And this post isn't helping.  So, this is the last word from me on this meta-subject, but you're naturally not prevented from making your response.

[Helgoland]

Sheb, I should make you my lieutenant - doing my job appears to come naturally to you

Also, to all the Americans here, please keep your 2nd amendment debate away from this thread. Gun control in the US context has been debated to death and has no place in this thread. Get. Out.

Yeah, this. Go make a gun or second amendment thread if you feel one is needed, but please keep that stuff out of here - it's a pretty big derail, and I think the walls of text are sort of squashing other discussion.

[smjjames]

Any of you guys want to comment on this: http://www.politico.eu/article/belgium-failed-state-security-services-molenbeek-terrorism/ ?

I know what Owlbread would say though.

[PanH]

So Abaaoud actually died yesterday, and his death was confirmed today (the body wasn't recognizable). Also, how the raid was handled (in French) : http://www.israelvalley.com/news/2015/11/18/48423/revelations-une-1ere-le-raid-confirme-utiliser-le-made-in-israel-dans-son-mode-operatoire

[TD1]

Turkey fans in this video:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/11/17/video-turkey-fans-boo-moment-of-silence-for-paris-attacks-then-break-out-into-this-chant/

Started chanting and booing during the one minute silence. There are various theories going around that attempt to explain it as something other than disrespect, for example that it was in protest to the hypocrisy the west has shown in not doing similar things for other terrorist attacks.

[Drakale]

So Abaaoud actually died yesterday, and his death was confirmed today (the body wasn't recognizable). Also, how the raid was handled (in French) : http://www.israelvalley.com/news/2015/11/18/48423/revelations-une-1ere-le-raid-confirme-utiliser-le-made-in-israel-dans-son-mode-operatoire

Interesting article. Crazy how the fact that they have explosive vests make the assault pretty much impossible to do the usual way. They basically flash banged them to death.

[martinuzz]

Sadly, my newspaper wrote about the Council for School and Security, an organisation that advises Dutch schools about security, recieving multiple complaints from primary and highschool teachers all around the counrtry, that muslim children interrupted the minute of silence that all our schools organized for the Paris attacks, by shouting alahu akhbar, and generally ignoring the minute of silence and just continuing their conversations.

I'd say, remove those kids from their parental care, let Child Protective Services find a deprogramming program suitable for kids, and have the parents of those kids investigated by intelligence services.

[Jopax]

So there's been an attack in Sarajevo yesterday. Wasn't nearly as succesful as the Paris one, the lone attacker shot dead two soldiers and a bus driver and wounded several people too, then shot himself.

And then there's this apparently US based blogger who's praising it and promising more, especially for those who fought for the country during the 90's or something.

Fun times ahead it seems :I

[Arx]

If we're talking about stuff other than Paris:

Thirty-two killed, eighty injured by terrorist attack in Nigeria.

Edit:

Make that thirty-four in Yola and fifteen elsewhere.

And Boko Haram kills more people than ISIS.

Now that the furore has died down a bit, maybe I won't be accused of pissing on graves by mentioning this.

[Greenbane]

Sadly, my newspaper wrote about the Council for School and Security, an organisation that advises Dutch schools about security, recieving multiple complaints from primary and highschool teachers all around the counrtry, that muslim children interrupted the minute of silence that all our schools organized for the Paris attacks, by shouting alahu akhbar, and generally ignoring the minute of silence and just continuing their conversations.

I'd say, remove those kids from their parental care, let Child Protective Services find a deprogramming program suitable for kids, and have the parents of those kids investigated by intelligence services.

On the one hand, I struggle to believe that'd be the majority reaction of Muslims. Especially shouting that mantra, which would imply support for the attacks in this context. But on the other, I doubt those who would disregard the minute of silence were all Muslim.

At the same time, I'm not sure what's so reprehensible about disregarding an entirely symbolic gesture. Sure, it's somewhat rude, but come on.