Walls of
JerichoText
The issue remains that your process of elimination is bloody flawed. Do try better.
Flabort does not have any counterclaims to being the Vig, but could be the Clone Lord claiming his minion's former role(he converted the real killer or such). For that matter, he could be claiming his minion's exact role, and that could be why we haven't lost yet- because Flabort's conversion method failed N1.
Oh no! Your magical fairy godmother warped reality to make this scenario and/or its variants impossible!
You accuse me of tunneling later, but I guess it can be addressed at this part, seeing as how I came up with his scenario in the first place. If I'm tunneling on you, why am I coming up with potential scenarios for everyone to consider that make it harder for me to lynch you?
Let's move on.
I'm going to quote this AGAIN, for good measure.
I am also a VT. I had assumed everyone else was, but OSG claimed otherwise... But I've already said I think he was the best conversion target, so it probably doesn't matter what he claims...
Ahem. The possibility of OSG being a convert certainly exists- because he was somewhat inactive D2 and D1 the guy he replaced also wasn't active. If you started the game as town... first of all, you could be lying, and are in fact the Clone Lord, with OSG just trying to protect you. Or you could possibly be town, but OSG being cult claiming truthfully that he inspected you earlier to learn your alignment. Oh, and note the above quote, in which you state that it doesn't matter what OSG claims, and that you think he's the best conversion target. In other words, using OSG's claim to remove yourself from the chart is completely invalid. COMPLETELY. AND. UTTERLY. INVALID. All it takes is the possibility of one lie and that entire thought process collapses.
If you didn't have that fairy godmother warping reality for you again, perhaps I could have stopped here.
But no, I need to debunk every bit of it.
This is arguably the biggest straw-clutch in the entire thing (outside of the gambit-that-wasn't-a-gambit claim) because you say I'm not allowed to use OSG's claim to support what I said because I mentioned earlier I think he's the likeliest convert.
You say that I can't remove myself from being CL using OSG's claim so... how's about mine? I claimed VT, or maybe that
I'm not going to leave myself in there because I know I'm not the CL? Even if I was the CL... do I even need to finish the sentence? Yes, I will, because my mind is blown by how defensive you're being.
Even if I was the CL, I'm not going to say "hey guys, I think I might be the CL!"
Now I expect you to say "oh hector now you're moving the goal-posts by changing how you're supporting one aspect of your argument by using a completely different player's assertions!"So let's move on.
1. WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS AFTER BEING SO BLOODY TOWNIE? WHY WOULD YOU BE SO IRRATIONAL? WHY MUST YOU CAUSE SUCH IRRITATION TO MY BRAIN!?
Ahem, now that AGH is done... "I appreciate that my gut-feeling is not going to clear him in anyone else's eyes". No, your "feeling" that TigerDude is noob town is useless. USELESS! Good for beginning an investigation, but not for tapping off an argument. Critical argument failure. "but I believe that Saber's actions during D1 and D2 were n00b town, so he at least started the game out as town, and is thus not CL". Critical. Argument. Failure. No, if you want to prove that TigerDude is noob town, give evidence in the form of posts, counterposts, and other RELEVANT stuffs.
Blast it. You used your fairy godmother to blast away that objection.
2. First of all, I think I understand what tunneling is now. As compared to my hammering, that is. It simply is focusing on one target and not considering alternate possibilities. Above this sentence, you see a complete debunker of the chain of elimination from hector. Please read all of it. Twice.
These bits are being grouped together because (in part 1.) you're asking me to look for things to support my argument that Saber is n00b town (and I will, after I'm done with this) while (in part 2.) accusing me of tunneling, and giving a definition of tunneling, without actually pointing out the bits where I've tunneled.
So I challenge you, sunshine, to go out and
prove to the world that I'm tunneling you, using the definition you just gave.
I will, however, start you off with a post in which I considered an alternate scenario:
this post.
"Oh" I hear you say, "this is the post in which you build a case against me! How does this contain alternate scenarios when you urge people to vote me?" Well, FoU, I'm glad you asked.
I want everyone to know that your change in behaviour from being sure and confident about fillipk and Saber being scum Days 1 and 2
could be because you were converted, and the CL just needs someone who isn't the CL to be lynched to win (assuming, as I mentioned a while back, 2 members just now and a successful conversion during the night-phase) so you're being directed to look scummy by your new boss.
I then reject that theory using your behaviour from the end of D2, when you acknowledge the MYLO situation, say we can still force a no-lynch, but lynch someone anyway because you know it's not a MYLO situation, because you're the CL.
And one more thing, Hector:
!!IT WAS ALL AN ELABORATE GAMBIT!!. Given, I didn't know it was until now, but I do now. All the crazy- all a TRAP. And you fell for it. Read above if you don't believe me.
You will explain this part, because you made a massive post and emphasised this bit right in the middle, so anyone skimming is only going to notice that bit and assume that's what you were doing, even though right after it (the bit I emphasised) you admit that it wasn't.
I am well aware this could be a trap, which is what I said in my case against you, linked and explained above, just not
your trap.
And some more debunkers, for good measure.
FoU has acknowledged he was jailed N1, and here we find ourselves on D3, with fewer than 3 cult. No cult has been killed so far, and both night phases have ended early, meaning everyone with a night action PM'd one to DA. We can thus conclude that the reason we have fewer than 3 cult at this point is because the CL was blocked N1, and was unable to convert someone.
If we carry this a little further, FoU also said he acted upon flabort N2, and flabort has claimed 1-shot immunity to conversion, so we could conceivably win the game by lynching FoU.
Please, do it, kill the scummy bastard with immediacy!
And now we've progressed to insults. I can tolerate that, but I can't tolerate irrationality.
Yes, I believe I was jailed N1(that's definitely what the flavor suggests, and also what I was told). I admitted as such earlier.
Under no circumstances does that alone make me definitively the Clone Lord.
Let's go through a significant list of possibilities!
One. The Clone Lord tried to convert me N1(and I'm flattered if you did). I was frozen in a block of ice. Think it over.
Two. N1, the Clone Lord targeted TDS, who was killed before conversion as a result of action priority orders.
Three. N1, the Clone Lord targeted the vigilante. Flabort or otherwise. 1-shot conversion immunity has been stated, and for balance reasons, makes sense.
If the Clone Lord managed to convert a target N1, then here's some more reasons we haven't lost.
Four. N2, the Clone Lord targeted Megggas. Who was shot and killed.
Five. N2, the Clone Lord targeted the vigilante. Since I know Flabort wasn't converted N2... oh wow I just realized, assuming flabort has a 1-shot resistance to conversion, he basically couldn't have been converted, since he wasn't converted N2 and if he was gotten night one it would have failed. Assuming his resistance.
Six. One of the so-called "VTs" actually has some sort of shenanigansly power role which thwarted the conversion(could have happened on N1 or N2, by the way).
And only one of these needs to be true in order to thwart your track of conversation.
Now who's being irrational? I didn't progress to insults, it was the full-stop/period to end the sentence that was my case against you, urging people to lynch the scum trying to kill us! If I called you a clown, which I really want to do
that would be an insult.
I've highlighted one part of the above quote and separated it for easier identification because my case was not built upon you being jailed, you being jailed was supporting evidence, and it wasn't the part that I stood by when I suggested that your behaviour could be explained through an alternate scenario.
Equally so, it's not the only thing I'm using as evidence against you. What of the fakeclaim and MYLO stuff?
Are you seriously trying to say that because you've postulated about things that weaken one part of my argument that the rest of it has thusly been disproven?
In other news...
Now for the offensive(somewhat smaller, flabort has made good arguments that I can refer you to).
There is no law of physics that forces OSG to be scum. He could have been converted, and would potentially be a desirable target N2 for his unknownness, but any given Clone Lord could have known that, and chosen not to convert him because of it. I know, WIFOM, but it suffices to say in this case that it is possible for OSG to be town. Now, it's still possible for flabort to be the CL claiming his convert's role, but I think I can purpose a theory.
Thank you, flabort.
This may be a restatement of an earlier theory, but now it's backed a bit more firmly.
SaberToothTiger is the CL and hector13 is the convert.
Reason one. The chainsawing. SaberTooth protects hector and vice versa. When I start on Saber, you pull out a minigun and start shooting me with it. I go insane(not really), you keep going, then I spring the trap. You were willing to go through with all this irrationality in order to get me lynched. Considering how good you were being for hunting D2, not being irrational and whatnot...
What do you mean when you "start" on Saber? You've been on Saber since D1, sunshine. Excuse me for thinking your tunnel vision is a bad thing.
Reason two. The irrationality, the tunneling on me, really. Willing to go so far out of rationality in order to get me offed.
Addressed later.
Reason the third. It just... see, SaberTooth was acting passive, scummy, and tried to get out of attention... if anyone was the Clone Lord, simply based on behavior alone, it would be him. N00b clone lord, not noob town. And now you completely switch tracks to defending him.
Alright, just for fun, I'll also give you the same task I gave flabort. When did I start defending Saber? And what did my defense constitute?
If you need anything more, speak with flabort, I think he's better at offense than I am.
Nice piggy-back. Can't find evidence yourself? Rely on someone else's arguments! I mean you already used two of mine to prove I'm talking rubbish, let's go whole hog and use someone else's to support your vote too!
In conclusion, SaberToothTiger, it was a good game. And I succeeded at setting off my trap.
Yehp, great trap. I also like how 80% of that post is you panicking trying to defend yourself:
"Hector's mad! He's using posts he rejected earlier!"
"My scummy behaviour was all a gambit!"
"See! I've postulated to ruin one bit of his argument against me, the rest of it must be equally bad!"
The final 20% being "I can't find arguments to use against my target myself, so I'll piggy-back on someone else's!"
PPE: crush away, dude. There are bits that we've kind of addressed (specifically the gambit) while I was typing it up, but I left it in because lazy.
PPE2: I didn't say it was an OMGUS, you clown
If it was a trap, there would be a point you would have it revealed, and it wasn't revealed then, it was revealed after I built a solid case against you that someone else agreed with to bring the votes against you to three out of five.
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Topic: A Game of Clones: Game Over, Town-Cult Draw! (Read 52839 times)