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Author Topic: Beginner's Mafia LVII: The Extra Guards Game over Town Victory  (Read 56270 times)

hector13

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Black/white thinking. He said you were suspisious, but you also seemed town: he mentioned 6 of 8 players, so obviously had null reads. You just had a bunch of information. And there's no garauntee thay were in order. Also, many people are suspiscious in mafia; town reads and scum reads are another thing. He found you dodgy but probably town, couldn't tell with others.

I didn't want to say this for him.

And how was I inactive while saying nothing? This is me attacking you.

Repeating an accusation about someone that you've mentioned numerous times and then saying you have an answer to the question they asked someone else but you're not going to give it isn't exactly fantastically useful information now, is it? Hence pots and kettles.

Further, with the continuing attacks on one player in the game while accusing that one person of not attacking enough people the previous day. Is your role town hypocrite by any chance?

Mostly, but not entirely.
You, hector13, NJW2000, and Megggas.
Probably the jailor.
I see myself as the most town. After that, TolyK, hector13, Tomasque, and maybe OSG (although he's more of a null read).
NJW.

His town reads were given in order. He doesn't count in that list because he's not exactly going to tell us if he's scum, is he? One can infer from that list that his suspicion list was also given in order.

Count the players in his lists. Did you even read the post? He mentioned 1 null read: the replacement player.

And what is this nonsense about black and white thinking? I can literally only be one of two things in this game. He mentioned everybody, but he only mentioned me as suspicious AND a town read. Excuse me for finding that a little bit suspicious.

Your defense of TDS is noted, of course, particularly with those little tidbits of false information. I'll be looking over your posts tomorrow NJW, you've somehow managed to go from me thinking you were probably town to thinking you are probably scum. Well done!
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origamiscienceguy

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What post did I skip?
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Megggas

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What post did I skip?

This one, quoted here:

Oh and nevermind
Hector13 i didn't actually investigate you thats what i get for not saving pms i send
Actually i investigated Tomasque he is Innocent/not mafia

Ah. Who reminded you to say that?
the GMs pm dident go through. And i only got the results a minute or two ago

What do you think about this post?  You may also want to check out ATH's couple of posts that came before it where he mistakenly said he investigated hector13.  I'm curious what your opinion is on that.
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origamiscienceguy

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Ok. Missed that while I was skimming through. Unvote

However, you claimed you got no result, then hector, then tomasque, so ATH

I'm watching you.

About me being an IC, I have never been one before, and the main time for ICing is mostly towards the beginning, so I probably won't use my purple font unless someone makes a very large misconception or something.
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Megggas

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origamiscienceguy:  Do you have any reads on other players?
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origamiscienceguy

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From what I've read, NJW seems town, I haven't seen any scumtells at least, Hector also is slightly town to me, but that is mainly a gut feeling. Of everybody here TheDarkStar seems the most scummy, but something about his posts alrays seems scummy to me, so I won't base any decisions on that.



I just realized that I skipped like 4 pages while reading. I must look so retarded bringing up the same thing about ATH again  :P
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Megggas

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I've read through the BM LV scumchat.  Here are some of the key points that I suspect Persus13 might have mentioned to his pupils in this game:

Quote from: Persus general advice
Things I will do: Advice on which players to nightkill, how you can improve, and how to be good scum, as well as responding to any questions you may have, even if that answer is "ask the ICs"

Quote from: Persus townie impersonation advice
There are three ways to appear town
1. Stand out as playing really well so that everyone thinks your play is town.
2. Avoid getting noticed, and run with the pack.
3. Lynch your scumbuddy.
I don't recommend No. 3, and Number 1 is a bit hard but possible. Number 2 is the best solution.

Quote from: Persus advising semi-endangered pupils
ALright, as it stands, things are going alright, but not great. You two have managed to be on people's suspect lists for different reasons, but fallacy and hiddenleaf seem to be higher up.

Thankfully, some people only think McCoder is scum because they think Fallacy is scum. Graknorke is a bit worrisome because he's voting you and most players seem to think well of him.

If I had to guess now I'd guess the fallacy or hiddenleaf will likely be lynched today. Before that happens I recommend you get some cases of your own. A lot of your cases have been using other people's arguments and that's been noticed. Get some more of your own or a unique take on someone else's the next time you vote.

Based on this, I suspect that Persus13, the scum IC, would be encouraging newbie scum to avoid standing out, go along with the crowd, and develop unique cases against other players when potentially in danger.  He would also be advising them on how to improve their play, so the scum in our game might have started off relatively bad and gradually improved.  Tomorrow, I'll reread the events of Day 1 to see if I spot this kind of play from anyone.
Ok, I'm going to bed now.  I'll be back at a computer in roughly 18-20 hours.
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TolyK

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Here, Tolyk! >:(

You said you thought ATH is scum, how does that suddenly morph into you being 50/50 on him being cop?

Further:
5. Well... Megggas, to confirm a decent and active town player, would probably be best.

Why is confirming town better than finding scum?
Well, excuse me for having a non-static opinion. My suspicion of him has waned a bit, but we should still lynch him.
Finding scum is better, of course, than confirming a townie, but confirming a good townie is better than confirming a lackluster one. Finding scum isn't a 100% thing, while confirming a townie is (otherwise... they're scum?). Meanwhile, if Megggas is scum, that means he's unsuspicious scum, currently, and that's obviously the worst kind. ;)


Okay, I'm back again.

TolyK:
I'd still like you to answer my questions from earlier.
TolyK:
PPE:
Why is finding the jailor so important?
if the jailor roleblocked the mafia n1 then if we know who tge jailor is we can lynch the scum they blocked last night.
Yeah... no. Giving out who the jailer is practically leaves scum with 1 kill per day, meaning (if you're the real cop) that you only get one more investigation (this night) before dying. Then the odds are pretty bad, given random lynches (i.e. if scumhunting fails to catch scum specifically - chances-based model yadda yadda).
If you're scum, you'd of course want to get the town roles to reveal themselves.
You've consistently shown to advising strategies that benefit the scum team. This is why you are still (now?) my #1 pick.
Why do you feel so strongly about ATH being scum now?  He made dumb mistakes and used faulty reasoning during Day 1 as well, but you seemed more forgiving toward him back then.  For example, you explained one of the reasons why he'd misread stuff.
BTW, ATH has stated he has disgraphia (?), which makes it hard for him to write well (read too?).
You also didn't think it was a good idea to policy-lynch him during Day 2.
Given I haven't had much time lately, and Pfp, I'd say that Roo still stands in my suspicion list, plus ATH should probably not get lynched today, and not policy-lynched tomorrow unless no more info comes out. If he's a cop, having him confirm a townie and then getting lynched to confirm the townie... not the best plan.
What changed?
Oh, I missed these.
First off, this isn't a policy lynch. The big tipper was forgetting who he copped and giving reasons for copping the other guy. A mistake of forgetting who you inspected is reasonable, but sharing your thought process for a different person entirely really smells of "made-up logic."
Also, I had said "unless more info comes out", which it has. ;)
Third, I've just noticed "having him confirm town and then getting lynched" is not the best plan, and I just suggested ATH inspect a person for towniness. However, lynching him is not to confirm, but because he's scummy enough in comparison to other players.

Pfp.
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My Mafia Stats
just do whatevery tolyK and blame it as a bastard mod
Shakerag: Who are you personally suspicious of?
At this point?  TolyK.

hector13

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Post analysis on NJW

Spoilered because text.

Spoiler: RVS (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Urist McFluff (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Roo's Influence (click to show/hide)


Unvote

Will do the rest later.

Also NJW.
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NJW2000

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I'll reply to this fully when not doing homework, I guess, though it might not give me time to scumhunt.

Quote
We have to wait until post 147 before we get his fifth post5, which I consider to be his first "real" post, by which I mean there is already content in the game to comment on. But wait! Amongst offering some opinions on ATH's stance on scumtells, and then getting defensive over his play in another game (apparently he has never been scum, so he has no scumtells, implying he can't possibly be scum in this game) He says we should consider ATH's cop-claim quietly to ourselves while discussing other things. Doesn't offer anything else to discuss, of course, followed by essentially asking TDS if he's gambiting then asks the other players if they have questions, without asking anything himself. This is the first time he tells is to ignore a significant aspect of the game.
I am getting a teeny bit of hostility here, though, I'll say now.

And an eagerness to misconstrue me, perhaps wilfully, try following the link. I tell ATH not to say what my "scumtells" are from reading previous games. Because I have never played scum in a game on this forum. Perhaps this is illogically denying the possibilty that I could be scum.

Also, people have made me answer to my worries about the confusion of the ATH mess more times than I care to give the same damn answer. Let it just be said that I felt we weren't getting a hard enough look at other players: could this have been true as a buncha people pleaded for an extension, then we mislynched? No idea. I was stating worries. If you like, just say you don't believe my explanation of this, it will save time and not doing so gets us nowhere, as far as I can see.

Not everyone can post as much or for as long and in some ways well as you. Keep this in mind when talking about content please.
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hector13

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You don't have to reply to it, it's mostly there for other people. As I've shown, you haven't done much scumhunting anyway :P at least on D1.
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Megggas

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I'm back again.  Instead of just posting a giant post with all my thoughts and questions, I'm gonna break it up into multiple posts.  Hopefully, while I'm typing up my next posts, my questions might get answered.

Questions:
Question for the ICs (TheDarkStar & origamiscienceguy):  Is it generally a profitable decision for scum to fake claim to lure out a power role if it requires the fake claimer to die?  Assuming the town lynches the fake claimer and the scum NK the power role, which side came out ahead?

NJW2000:  If you're right about hector13 being scum, then who do you believe might be his partner?

hector13:  If you're right about NJW2000 being scum, then who do you believe might be his partner?

AbstractTraitorHero:  What are your thoughts about TolyK, TheDarkStar, origamiscienceguy/4maskedwolf, and myself?
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hector13

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I would say TDS, but I mentioned earlier that I always seem to scumread him.
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NJW2000

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You don't have to reply to it, it's mostly there for other people. As I've shown, you haven't done much scumhunting anyway :P at least on D1.
Don't worry, when I said "reply", I meant point out your false accusations, miscontruing of things and logical fallacies :P

NJW2000:  If you're right about hector13 being scum, then who do you believe might be his partner?
Gonna kinda think out loud, post my reads re: working with hec
Well, TDS did what has been called a chainsaw defence on him, but Hector brought this up, and TDS didn't press it but let Hec argue for himself, which feels quite townie... ofc, the fact that hec mentioned it obfuscates it further, though I doubt two scum would have planned that little bit together, as it brings in the other scum.
 
  Can't really tell very well with ATH due to his confusing playstyle, though I can see why Hec would attack him if they were both scum, as it would look good for Hector13, and let them manipulate the questions a bit. It would be odd for a scum to make a splash d1, but it would also be odd for a vanilla town to gambit as ATH has done and make a commotion, while a cop claiming d1 is also weird, so I'm mostly ignoring "scum wuoldn't draw attention like this d1" arguments for ATH. His reads also appear rushed, his suspiscions about hector were oddly justified iirc and may have been an attempt to appear town in case Hec was lynched. He also backed off me a fair bit when I attacked hector, which helps this interpretation.
  I've been nervous of looking for a scumbuddy because of the hilariously bad theory this gave me my last and only mafia, in which I found the scum and then attacked someone who pressurevoted me on all fronts... I'm unsure why I did this, it was awful play.

I haven't time to read back stuff, as late, I might later, but these are the only ones that I can say much interesting on relating to Hec now. Ofc, scum may not associate.


hector13:  If you're right about NJW2000 being scum, then who do you believe might be his partner?
Don't bother answering this one, it's TolyK /joke
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AbstractTraitorHero

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I'm back again.  Instead of just posting a giant post with all my thoughts and questions, I'm gonna break it up into multiple posts.  Hopefully, while I'm typing up my next posts, my questions might get answered.

Questions:
Question for the ICs (TheDarkStar & origamiscienceguy):  Is it generally a profitable decision for scum to fake claim to lure out a power role if it requires the fake claimer to die?  Assuming the town lynches the fake claimer and the scum NK the power role, which side came out ahead?

NJW2000:  If you're right about hector13 being scum, then who do you believe might be his partner?

hector13:  If you're right about NJW2000 being scum, then who do you believe might be his partner?

AbstractTraitorHero:  What are your thoughts about TolyK, TheDarkStar, origamiscienceguy/4maskedwolf, and myself?
Okay
First
TolyK:I don't trust him he has not postee much and i find his posts useless at Times he is someone I'm thinking of investigate tonight .
Thedarkstar: i don't have any read on him he kinda just blends In and you don't really notice him but he could be acting that way becuase of advice from the scum ic? So i find him suspicious enough to possibly use an inspect tonight.
Origami:meh i need a bit more time before I'm sure of anything I'll analyze him more and try and form a hypothesis about whether he is scum or town.
Meggas:.....you seem town I have a good gut feeling and i have seen scumtells in your posts but their inconsistent so i don't believe your scum...for now.
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