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Total Members Voted: 18

[micelus]

Isn't moral objectiveness exactly what Andres is saying? I thought moral subjectivity was the one where 'it depends'.

EDIT: Misread. Coffee good.
EDIT: Nope. I am completely justified in my confusion .

[Stirk]

Isn't moral objectiveness exactly what Andres is saying? I thought moral subjectivity was the one where 'it depends'.

Yeah, I meant to right "Is" instead of "isn't" :0.

I think I did something wrong, then fixed it. I am confused and tired now, and I hate the taste of coffee, and it is like 7 at night.

[Andres]

You see Andres, morality in this universe (Outside dubious choices of Gods choosing sphere like "Goodness" and "Villainry") isn't on a scale. It isn't subjective. Action A isn't evil all the time from the perspective of everyone. It is objective, like in real life.

I think you may be confusing subjective with objective. Objective morality means something is good or evil every time. Subjective morality means something is good or evil depending on someone's point of view.

Look, if you don't want me to use the word "Good" to describe what I'm describing, what word should I use instead? What word can be used to describe the generic lessons that Disney has been teaching us? What word can I use to describe the protagonists in untold numbers of stories? You might disagree with "good" being assigned to a specific set of moral values but there really isn't any other  practical way to label them.

[hector13]

I think you broke Stirk so bad he confused his message, Andres.

He edited it for clarity.

Edit: rather, they edited for clarity.

[TheBiggerFish]

I think I may have accidentally-intentionally put a big dent in the Fourth Wall.

[hector13]

What did you do!?

[micelus]

You see Andres, morality in this universe (Outside dubious choices of Gods choosing sphere like "Goodness" and "Villainry") isn't on a scale. It isn't subjective. Action A isn't evil all the time from the perspective of everyone. It is objective, like in real life.

I think you may be confusing subjective with objective. Objective morality means something is good or evil every time. Subjective morality means something is good or evil depending on someone's point of view.

Look, if you don't want me to use the word "Good" to describe what I'm describing, what word should I use instead? What word can be used to describe the generic lessons that Disney has been teaching us? What word can I use to describe the protagonists in untold numbers of stories? You might disagree with "good" being assigned to a specific set of moral values but there really isn't any other  practical way to label them.

For the sake of brevity, [Alignment: Deity] would probably solve this problem. If a sapient had [Alignment: Eid] it would have a morality as desired by Eid. Conversely, [Alignment: Sadiq] would be completely different but still good from their point of view.

[Stirk]

You see Andres, morality in this universe (Outside dubious choices of Gods choosing sphere like "Goodness" and "Villainry") isn't on a scale. It isn't subjective. Action A isn't evil all the time from the perspective of everyone. It is objective, like in real life.

I think you may be confusing subjective with objective. Objective morality means something is good or evil every time. Subjective morality means something is good or evil depending on someone's point of view.

Look, if you don't want me to use the word "Good" to describe what I'm describing, what word should I use instead? What word can be used to describe the generic lessons that Disney has been teaching us? What word can I use to describe the protagonists in untold numbers of stories? You might disagree with "good" being assigned to a specific set of moral values but there really isn't any other  practical way to label them.

The Protagonist? I noticed the flub up and fixed it.

It isn't the world "Good" I am complaining about. It is the entire concept of you wanting to put objective morality in a setting with obviose subjective morality (*Checks to make sure the right ones are used*). Like I just said, Good and Evil are completly subjective. For example, I am reading through Ovid's Metamorphoses for a class. And 90% of the "heroes" in that book are awful people. But they where considered good at the time. What you are asking is for the Universe Itself to have a defined morality, that there is no way anyone of us would agree with you upon, for no real reason.

I think you broke Stirk so bad he confused his message, Andres.

He edited it for clarity.

Edit: rather, they edited for clarity.

....
I am most definitely a manly man. Did you ever think I was something else? Or is there someone helping me? YOUR EDIT IS CONFUSING ME EVEN MORE THAN ANDRES IS!

[hector13]

For the sake of brevity, [Alignment: Deity] would probably solve this problem. If a sapient had [Alignment: Eid] it would have a morality as desired by Eid. Conversely, [Alignment: Sadiq] would be completely different but still good from their point of view.

You are on the ball, sunshine.

Though this presents the problem of folk having to tell KJP what their moral systems might be...

....
I am most definitely a manly man. Did you ever think I was something else? Or is there someone helping me? YOUR EDIT IS CONFUSING ME EVEN MORE THAN ANDRES IS!

Internets, brah. You could just be a woman pretending to be a man, all I know is your words and demeanour but yeah, I always thought of you as a dude, I've just recently grown distasteful of gender-specific pronouns.

I could refer you to a research paper that devised a method of how to determine a person's gender by the way they typed, but I can't be bothered looking for it

[Andres]

For the sake of brevity, [Alignment: Deity] would probably solve this problem. If a sapient had [Alignment: Eid] it would have a morality as desired by Eid. Conversely, [Alignment: Sadiq] would be completely different but still good from their point of view.

Not really good enough. If Eid wanted to give a race strict moral values, then alignment simply wouldn't cut it. If he eventually strayed from what he perceived to be at the time the path of righteousness, he'll want his race to call him out, but since they're aligned to him they won't.

It isn't the world "Good" I am complaining about. It is the entire concept of you wanting to put objective morality in a setting with obviose subjective morality (*Checks to make sure the right ones are used*). Like I just said, Good and Evil are completly subjective. For example, I am reading through Ovid's Metamorphoses for a class. And 90% of the "heroes" in that book are awful people. But they where considered good at the time. What you are asking is for the Universe Itself to have a defined morality, that there is no way anyone of us would agree with you upon, for no real reason.

But I'm not asking for Ovid's morality, I'm specifically asking for modern-day cartoon morality. You know, the kind of morality that ties together the heroes from Avatar, Disney, DBZ, etc. I'm only labelling that set of morality as "good" for convenience. That set of subjective morality is what I want. I'm not saying it's be be-all and end-all of good, but it's what I want and it's what I'll call "good" simply because it would be tedious to call it anything else. It's also what plenty of people (including KJP) would recognise when I say "good".

[micelus]

I may not be reading that correctly, but you are stating that if Eid changed his views, his worshipers wouldn't argue with him, yes? OK make it it <Alignment: Code> then where code is whatever holy book/proverbs/whale songs/etc. that the culture considers their values.

E.g, <Alignment: Al-Zhaw>. Sadiq then orders a Djinn to kill another innocent Djinn. From the point of view of the other Djinn, Sadiq is breaking the laws placed upon them.

[Andres]

At this point, I'm tempted to create an angel with Flux and Essence caps and call him "Jesus" for the specific purpose of physically creating objective good. Either that or I'll create the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

[micelus]

Ehh, well I'm already full-on Islam-Djinn with Yazidi here and there so go ahead.

EDIT: I will oppose the creation of objective morality on all accounts, just so ya know.

[Stirk]

Internets, brah. You could just be a woman pretending to be a man, all I know is your words and demeanour but yeah, I always thought of you as a dude, I've just recently grown distasteful of gender-specific pronouns.

I could refer you to a research paper that devised a method of how to determine a person's gender by the way they typed, but I can't be bothered looking for it

Fool, there are no Women on the internet! Besides, I love pronouns, gender-specific or otherwise. They are a wonderful way to shorten a reference to anyone or anything into two or three letters. The "Large Hadron Colder" is simply "It", saving a lot of typing. Even short-words like KJP can be shortened into the wonderful "He", shaving a letter off an already short word. "They" is alright, but fairly long for normal use, and referring to everyone as they would make any writing/speaking sound funny, as repeating any word too much would. The English language is buetiful, don't know why so many people have problems with it  .

Not really good enough. If Eid wanted to give a race strict moral values, then alignment simply wouldn't cut it. If he eventually strayed from what he perceived to be at the time the path of righteousness, he'll want his race to call him out, but since they're aligned to him they won't.

So you are saying that KJP should know your character better than you, to the point they can predict what he would have thought the "Moral Thing" was?

But I'm not asking for Ovid's morality, I'm specifically asking for modern-day cartoon morality. You know, the kind of morality that ties together the heroes from Avatar, Disney, DBZ, etc. I'm only labelling that set of morality as "good" for convenience. That set of subjective morality is what I want. I'm not saying it's be be-all and end-all of good, but it's what I want and it's what I'll call "good" simply because it would be tedious to call it anything else. It's also what plenty of people (including KJP) would recognise when I say "good".

This. Game. Isn't. A. Cartoon. Please get that into your scull.

You aren't labeling a morality though. You are saying "HEY KJP! IMMA PUT SOME GENERIC MORALITY STUFF IN!112313!"

The Heroes from Avatar, Disney, and DBZ all have different moralities. Vastly different. Heck, even the characters have different moralities. Who is morally right, Goku or Vegita? Aang or the supporting characters? There is not a set list of morality. Going back to what someone called you out on, it is fair to say that most of us believe "Eating Souls is an Evil Action", because it is destroying someones soul. Goku, Aang, and Mickey Mouse would find something like that unthinkable. But here you are pretending it falls under your interpretation of "Good". You haven't even explained what is "Good" yet!

At this point, I'm tempted to create an angel with Flux and Essence caps and call him "Jesus" for the specific purpose of physically creating objective good. Either that or I'll create the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

I will personally kill them if you do this. Not the Don. I will break through the fourth wall and destroy them personally.

[micelus]

Normally I'd be against cartoon morality but considering the current silliness of the current gods and some of their spheres, I can't really justify any move against it.

Also, chill down. Remember, its just a game.