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[VoidSlayer]

Those...SOULLESS COMMIE BACKSCRATCHERS! I put all that effort into designing the perfect weapon to fight them, and they design a weapon specifically focused on killing the thing I made! This is obviously the work of a spy who I shalt strangle with my own two hands!

Now, back to designing! I had actually thought of my own Fighter last night, going in a different direction. I think we can all agree that our main goal right now is teaching those lousy Type 20s who is boss. And the boss is us.

Z-2 "Dragon" Tank-Type Jet

A massive jet, lets say 10X the Z1 for now. Its main focus is thick armored plating defending the vehicle, ideally strong enough to take multiple hits from current-gen USSA missiles in any location without effecting performance. Its secondary focus is load-out, carrying as many missiles as it can safely. Speed and agility are willing to be sacrificed, though ideally it should travel fast enough that the Z1s escorting it do not stall.

There! We have a bunch of ore, so we should focus on using it. If we can get these things working at Very-Expensive or less, it shouldn't matter if they have perfect accuracy, they only have two missiles each and, with luck, this thing could eat them like potato chips.

Flares/Chaff: Since we got more-or-less free missile upgrades with the Sunrise, it should be *easy* to add chaff/flares to any new Jet that we make without needing an additional Design phase.

-1

We should make jets with more missiles and countermeasures, not heavy armor.  More weight on in flight vehicle is gonna take more fuel to fly.

What if we combined our missile sat and command pods while putting on a flare system?  If we assemble the parts in orbit we would not need a heavier lifter. 

[Stirk]

The Dragon would have extra missiles. Tones of them, if all goes well. To get a significant increase in our missile capacity, we have to significantly increase our size. If we significantly increase the size, the chance of getting hit increases (larger target, likely less agile, more heat). Even with countermeasures, we would need some kind of armor, or we would get downed too often to make a difference. "Needing more fuel" isn't that big a drawback, in my opinion. If it takes 2 Chemicals and 4 ore, it would only become Expensive. 3 Chemicals is Very expensive, and equivalent to our rockets, but even then we should be able to have it practical.

Our missile sats still wouldn't be able to fight back against the T-20s, which are kicking our but right now. If we can keep the T-20s down, they will no longer have anything to shoot down our satellites with. The Sunrises work great...if they don't get blown up before they can be used.

[VoidSlayer]

They have their own missile satellite, that is what is taking down our missiles.  They used the design phase to make both a missile sat and heat seeking missiles I think.

[Stirk]

They have their own missile satellite, that is what is taking down our missiles.  They used the design phase to make both a missile sat and heat seeking missiles I think.

No, I think you are mistaken. They "developed a new anti-satellite weapon deployed by high-flying jets,", the Type 700 ASAT air-to-space missile. This is what has been shooting down the sunrises:

- Type 700 ASAT: Air to space missile with a kinetic kill warhead: this three-stage missile is only capable of being launched from a stratospheric fighter, which includes the Type 20. It's inserted into orbit, assisted by the jet's speed, where it then attempts to intersect with the target. Uses infrared technology developed in-house. [2 Chemicals, 1 Ore, Inexpensive]

This is fired from their normal jet.

[VoidSlayer]

Oh I see, thanks.

Surya-72 Command Flight Module:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

A basic capsule capable of reentry that can hold up to 2 astronauts; Sacrifices crew capacity for additional life support and propulsion systems. Powered by batteries and solar panels.  New systems include anti-missile flares and an attachment port for linking up to and controlling other orbital vehicles and sats, like the Sunrise Disposable Missile Sat.[?]

Basically we can link up to and control the Sunrise in orbit, since the Sunrise is expensive and the command module we have now is inexpensive, even if this ends up expensive we can still pair every Sunrise with a command module. 

At worst we can have it physically grab the sunrise and control it through close range radio, at best we can develop a real docking port.  We can use this as a base for manned spaceflight for the long term and swap out different add ons.

[Stirk]

I think our solar panels are kind of expensive. We will need more Chemicals if we want to really consider space travel. It would be an interesting design for the future, but right now we are getting owned jet-wise. Well, that is kind of an overstatement. Last turn, our jets had a huge advantage, as did our surface to air missiles. This turn, they closed the gap and have an advantage over us. They are even able to take out our satellites now.

So I think we really need to focus on taking down their jets, in some way.

But yeah, everyone is right about the flares. The events dropped some pretty huge hints that it will be a big advantage to us (RIP Ichigo and Po)

[LordSlowpoke]

guys we need point defense weapons what are you doing

[Graknorke]

(again I find myself asking) Point defence against? Putting PD on the Sunrise would be a total waste because they're only single-use anyway, and our command modules can maneuver out of the way anyway.

No, our best bet is taking down the ASAT missiles before they can launch.

[Stirk]

A CIWS is a good idea, but we don't have much a base to use one effectively. Our current jets are far to light to hold one, we don't have any computer base or even bases for the gun, and our satellites are made to be cheap disposables that don't really need them. The lightest that I can think of is 3.65 tons, when an extra missile crashed our current jet. It might work if we put it on the Dragon, though we would probably have to sacrifice some weapon capacity...

Otherwise, the flares the are talking about are technically point-defense systems. Anti-missile missiles don't really work when everything we have has a single missile capacity compared to our enemies two.

What do you think of the Dragon, Graknorke?

[VoidSlayer]

Their big missiles work through inertial force, blowing them up would just send shrapnel at the target.

I can agree that making some kind of machine gun for our jets or modules would be a good idea, but we need to design a new thing to mount them on first.

Take them down before they can launch? We would need a very accurate long range missile for that.  Our current missiles are short range air to air.

[Graknorke]

@Dragon: I'm... not hot on it. The current theatre is of high-speed jets. The closest IRL thing to what you're proposing would be an older style of bomber, and a big part of their operation was looking out for fighters (the rear gunner having to appear to be vigilant at all times to keep them away). In our current situation with the enemy fighters as fast as they are and planes having to be light enough to fly, I don't think that a modern day vehicle like that would survive for very long at all. Armour helps against bullets to a degree, but when tubes of explosives are being propelled at you not much helps.

EDIT: I meant taking down the USSA's fighters before they can launch missiles. Anyway, the Z-1 right now is designed for intercepting rocket launches. It's not like that would be impossible either.

[LordSlowpoke]

what is an autocannon, grak

in fact, void, what is an autocannon

mgs are what you'd see on planes in the 40s, an autocannon is where it's at

[Graknorke]

And we need autocannons because? You're not explaining this very well.

[VoidSlayer]

Z-2 Shenlong Heavy Jet Fighter

Extreme altitude fighter, built for intercepting jets in the air. Heavier then the Z-1 it has a payload of several Needle SRAAMs, an anti-missile chaff/flare system and a second pilot dedicated to radar targeting. [?]

[Stirk]

Their big missiles work through inertial force, blowing them up would just send shrapnel at the target.

I can agree that making some kind of machine gun for our jets or modules would be a good idea, but we need to design a new thing to mount them on first.

Take them down before they can launch? We would need a very accurate long range missile for that.  Our current missiles are short range air to air.

Well their anti-sat missiles work by kinetic force alone. If we can put enough force in the opposite direction (like reactive armor), it should stop it without hitting too much shrapnel. Their normal weapons work on explosive force.

And he is right. Like I/he said, they are launched from the enemy's jet. If we can kill/distract most of the jets in the lower atmosphere, then they can't fire in the upper atmosphere.

@Dragon: I'm... not hot on it. The current theatre is of high-speed jets. The closest IRL thing to what you're proposing would be an older style of bomber, and a big part of their operation was looking out for fighters (the rear gunner having to appear to be vigilant at all times to keep them away). In our current situation with the enemy fighters as fast as they are and planes having to be light enough to fly, I don't think that a modern day vehicle like that would survive for very long at all. Armour helps against bullets to a degree, but when tubes of explosives are being propelled at you not much helps.

EDIT: I meant taking down the USSA's fighters before they can launch missiles. Anyway, the Z-1 right now is designed for intercepting rocket launches. It's not like that would be impossible either.

That is what it is designed on, mostly the "Flying Fortresses". As we have guided rockets, having several aimed behind us would be able to take out any enemies attempting that. The fighter-escort (also based on the bombers  ) is also meant to percent the enemy from using their agility to their full advantage. Modern tank-armor is capable of blocking missiles, and there is nothing stating that our enemies are particularly powerful. I have faith that we will be able to make something capable of blocking the enemy missiles while still getting off the ground. If we keep trying to one-up them at high-speed jets, eventually one of us will fall behind. We have to try something else if we want to jump ahead.

And we need autocannons because? You're not explaining this very well.

We have been getting into dogfights, it wouldn't be a bad idea to add one.