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[Haspen]

How much does it stack up to at lvl3?

I've only seen lvl1, and 10% reduction isn't much.

[Telgin]

I think I've only seen it at level 1 as well and admittedly it's not a huge mechanical impact, but it drives me nuts to have seven fleets with 210 cap and then one at 189.

[Lidku]

Alternatively 'generic'' low level leaders, particularly governers and admirals could be autogenned and force-stuck into their holes.

So basically what envoys are right now? Not really ideal, considering that envoys are one of the leader types that DEFINITELY shouldn't be autogenned/generic at this point, considering how important they are and how many things they're supposed to do.

[MrRoboto75]

Envoys are such a steal from EU4s diplomat system.

Why they're "fleshed out" as character leaders at all is a mystery to me.

[pisskop]

They are called 'external leaders' in some text ingame.  Makes me think they plan to expand them.

Spies, Diplomats, GC Envoys, possibly saboteurs or assassins, offscreen (no actual ships) traders and scouts, there are a lot of things they could do.


It looks like they mean to do something.  And TBH the pre-ftl stuff is a little too frequent, but they do provide a nice little distraction and break from 'number go up' gameplay.  Why I need to waste an envoy on them is mind boggling, but theyre a nice change to roleplaying.

So basically what envoys are right now? Not really ideal, considering that envoys are one of the leader types that DEFINITELY shouldn't be autogenned/generic at this point, considering how important they are and how many things they're supposed to do.

I was thinking more like 'capped at level 2 or 3, 1 extra negative trait, no level 2 traits' forced leaders who vary only a little and died and lived out their days uneventfully except for when you replace them with actual hired leaders.  But yeah, envoys are frustratingly bland.

Also why is my xenophobic empire limited to 2 spies or espionage missions?  Youd think they would want to do more clandestine stuff, not less.  Envoys being spies is enh.

[MrRoboto75]

Espionage has the same issue as Federations in that you need to invest a tradition tree to bother with it at all.  Like I don't think you even get spy/encryption tech without starting the tradition.

Speaking of, it's technically easier to rule your neighbors as an overlord than to peacefully federate with them.

[Haspen]

Espionage has the same issue as Federations in that you need to invest a tradition tree to bother with it at all.  Like I don't think you even get spy/encryption tech without starting the tradition.

You need 'more physics points from Researchers' techs (Quantum something?) and Colonial Bureaucracy to get first espionage tech, after that its 'previous spy tech + physics researchers level tech'.

From what I have played espionage, both with and without the tree, there's really 4 actions you would use:

Gather Intel: has a chance to give you colony sites info, lift fog of war (very nice if you didn't survey/visit their systems with Science ships) or show enemy fleets, neat before invading that pesky neighbour who doesn't wanna be friends.
Acquire Asset: It's a bit random, but Assets can be reused, and +4 to operation speed is always nice.
Smear Campaign: Has potential to break those pesky defense pacts your neighbour has, making it easier to wage war.
Steal Technology: At worst it boosts something you're already researching; at best it will give you a tech that has been eluding you for those XX years already.

Subterfuge Tradition tree is nice (+50% infiltration speed, intel refunds after operations), but not a requirement; you easily get more codebreaking/encryption bonuses from edicts, techs and civics, really.

[Lidku]

Envoys are such a steal from EU4s diplomat system.

Why they're "fleshed out" as character leaders at all is a mystery to me.

The fact that EU4 completely lacks interesting characters and barely has ANY internal politics, besides the Estates mechanic that either just gives you some advantages or maluses depending on what privileges you grant, is what it makes one of the most boring Paradox games there is.

[pisskop]

I keep underestimating the ai and I kind of like that.  I should start by saying I tend to quit a lot more games for all sorts of reasons.  As soon as I get bored, or I feel I learned something, I tend to restart.

So I had one game where a bunch of pre-ftls achieved spaceflight at or shortly after games start.  I had Federation's End wake up pretty early and contact me via my rival vassaling them.  And the GD prikki-ti were my surprise neighbor competing with the honorbound warriors who got quickly gobbled up by the nercrophagic devouring swarm in another.  That second game was quite fun, actually, within 30 years I met all my very hostile neighbors, including the rogue servitors (who seem to be much more aggressive in 3.8 in general).  I like feeling on the backfoot all game.

My last 2 games were quitting when I realized I wouldnt be able to muster the 1000 strength army to take an early threats homeworld and just now being vassalized by a rival mid-expansion.  I quit that one because I was mid-expansion and they came at me with 5k fleet.  I thought 'okay, how bad could being a vassal be?  15% tribute?  Well, yes, that, and also no expansion for 5 years.  in 2210 or so.  He would have been willing to negotiate expansion rights, and I would have let him, but Im mot waiting 60 months for that.  Just take the L and move on.

The ai has been putting up significantly more of a fight, I feel like.   And I like it.  I got used to taking them as chumps

[Telgin]

The AI generally does feel much smarter than it used to, and it's a good thing for sure.

I haven't encountered many losses but since I like to play pacifists I tweak galaxy settings so that there are like half as many AI empires as the default settings suggest, which lets me take a lot of territory despite being pacifist and never declaring wars.  That, in turn, lets me usually get away with not investing in a military early on.  Sometimes I don't meet aliens for 30+ years.

That mindset has definitely come back to bite me in the butt though.  One of my most memorable wars involved me getting caught with my pants down like that and having to trickle build destroyers for years as alloys allowed so that I could build up a big enough force to retake like 10 systems I lost along a snaking path to my neighbor.  I've also lost a few early game wars badly enough to just restart since I didn't expect I could come back from them.

I very rarely restart the game though.  Funnily enough, I restarted my last new game twice.  The first time was because of something new to 3.8: I had an imperial heir who was a general and... that's just such a waste.  Since you find out who your heir is like 15 days into the game, I didn't feel bad rerolling that one, and I got a governor the second time.  My second restart was because I got the abandoned terraforming equipment event on one of my very early colonies.

I despise that event, by the way.  I think I've had neutral outcomes like 10% of the time and a gaia world maybe 3% of the time.  87% of the time it feels like it converts to a tomb world or toxic world and kills the colonists, which is exactly what happened that time.  Since I was like 10 years into the game, I restarted again.  What's so bad about this event is that if you just ignore it, you get a permanent debuff on the planet even if you terraform it to a gaia world, which is stupid and almost certainly an oversight.

[Haspen]

There's a 4th outcome to that event which seems to affect me all the time (funnily enough I never got the Tomb world outcome), which is:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Your colonists get mutated into monster armies and you have maybe few months at most to ship in assault armies before the armies conquer the planet and begin purging your pops until no one remains.

[Telgin]

Oh, I totally forgot that one but it's the one I've seen the most often even.  I usually just ignore the event these days so it's been a while since I've seen it.  I should've ignored it last time but gambled and lost.

[EuchreJack]

Is the AI actually getting better, or has the cheating been secretly boosted?

[pisskop]

Is the AI actually getting better, or has the cheating been secretly boosted?

I think its doing more optimal things, like building defenses and quitting before it gets smashed into a thousand pieces for the next warmonger to gobble up.  Technical things that make sense and arent quite as wasteful.  The second tier powers seem keen on pouncing on their targets once the primary ones are distracted, little things Ive noticed so far.  For instance they seem to acknowledge if I start moving fleets around their borders, etc.

afa: cheating.  idk.  its not a 'raw number go up' if it is, but I already give them a significant edge via difficulty selection.



Speaking of 'fleets they can see'.  I tried a little stealth.  Figured I'd do an all armor build since the stealth disables shields for a short time anyway.  Stealth occupies an accessory slot, meaning corvettes are kind of crap at stealth.  no worse than normal fleets I guess, and theyre cheap to replace after the early game, but you can expect to lose up to half if you take on something chunky for their size.

The destroyers Im just getting to now, They operate a little better, at least as the rushdown style Im going for.  Still dont want to just throw them at chunky starforts or into the mouth of battleships, but its only 2300 for me, 25yr into the midgame.  I use a pair of rushdown fleets in most my games for their speed and cheapness.  Frigates can be stealthed, but I have a pretty poor opinion of them outside of large fleets anyway.  too slow, to quick to die, not enough accessory slots and no guns to speak of.

[MorleyDev]

There's also little things like how the AI has an explicit "preparing for war" phase now. If you have sufficient Intel you'll get a warning they're in this phase, but even if you don't you can tell if you pay attention to your borders since you'll see them moving their fleets to the border in preparation for the attack.