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[BlackFlyme]

Haven't played in about a month now. I am really itching to play, and hang out with my friends. I got lots of stuff I want to talk about, but no one to talk with.

One thing I am wondering is why outsiders are the only creature type that has full martial proficiencies right off the bat. Additionally, why are proficiencies racial traits, and not racial features, thus not requiring any racial hit-dice? Technically, as written aasimars and tieflings and such can swing a sword before they can walk.

On a similar note, I have a bit of confusion over Improved Unarmed Strike. There are classes that spend their whole life training with many different types of weapons, and yet they can't seem to be able to throw a proper punch. Unless they wear a cestus or some thick leather or metal gauntlets.


I have been also been wanting to make a few different types of characters. The first one is a non-lethal Rogue. Another is a bleeding-based Rogue. Both can be done, and can be done well, but I don't think I should do it with a single character. It just seems odd to me. Could there be non-lethal bleed?

"Nah, it's fine! See, the bleeding is internal. That's good, right?"

I've also looked a bit into Ranger traps. Pretty good for battlefield control, but their damage is fairly poor at best. I was hoping for a Rogue archetype that gave traps though. Three ideas with one character. But only one archetype gains traps, and it is kobold specific. Worse, you give up about half your sneak attack progression.

There will soon be more elements for the kineticist. Wood and void. In my opinion, they aren't finished with what they have so far. Earth has no acid abilities, and many potential composite blasts are missing. Void does negative energy damage. Therefore, it must be possible to have positive energy kineticists, can there not? I could go on quite a bit about this class.

Finally, there will also be a new trait that allows players to treat the Lawful Evil deity of Devils, Asmodeus, as though he were Lawful Neutral. Paladins of Asmodeus will be a thing. I don't know how that would work. Sort of like how Antipaladins can follow deities who aren't exactly evil, and spend their afterlife in planes of radically different alignments. Hope that Paladin enjoys Hell, because I know that Antipaladin is going to love Elysium.

[Jimmy]

One thing I am wondering is why outsiders are the only creature type that has full martial proficiencies right off the bat. Additionally, why are proficiencies racial traits, and not racial features, thus not requiring any racial hit-dice? Technically, as written aasimars and tieflings and such can swing a sword before they can walk.

Game balance. Martial weapons usually deal dice damage one step higher or have a crit range one increment wider than their equivalent in a simple weapon. The majority of outsider PC characters pay a level adjustment in 3.5e as a tax on the proficiency, along with the slew of other bonuses to being a native outsider, especially the cheese you can accomplish in the 3.5e rules with the polymorph school. That being said I know a lot of DMs that will houserule that any outsider that's a PC only gets the proficiencies from their class as if they were a humanoid.

On a similar note, I have a bit of confusion over Improved Unarmed Strike. There are classes that spend their whole life training with many different types of weapons, and yet they can't seem to be able to throw a proper punch. Unless they wear a cestus or some thick leather or metal gauntlets.

Remember that Improved Unarmed Strike is more than just being able to deal lethal damage. You also gain the benefit of always threatening your reach area, meaning you can take attacks of opportunity much more easily. This can be handy when you're a ranged attacker or spellcaster, or if you wield a reach weapon. You don't need to occupy a hand with a weapon, can never be disarmed, etc. Admittedly though, the feat itself is fairly lackluster for the cost, acting as more of a feat tax prerequisite for other more interesting abilities.

I've also looked a bit into Ranger traps. Pretty good for battlefield control, but their damage is fairly poor at best. I was hoping for a Rogue archetype that gave traps though. Three ideas with one character. But only one archetype gains traps, and it is kobold specific. Worse, you give up about half your sneak attack progression.

Pathfinder has the Slayer hybrid class, which is essentially the Ranger Trapper archetype without the ranger traps. You can always just add this by spending a feat instead, though. I'd count the hybrid as strictly superior to the archetype unless really focused on delivering traps from ranged weapons.

[Neonivek]

It is kind of funny that WotC tried so hard to keep all the creature types "balanced"

Given that, in the end, balance was so insane that creature rating (the rating that tells you how tough a creature is) is more of a guideline... in the same way that someone pointing on at a spot on a globe is a guideline to where the pharmacy is.

[BlackFlyme]

The thing about an unarmed strike is that a cestus or a gauntlet / spiked gauntlet is still superior if you are not a monk-like class. They cannot be disarmed, deal slightly more damage, and you can still wield weapons in those hands.

This is in pathfinder though, so I don't know about D&D versions. Though there are many feats that require improved unarmed.

[scriver]

Oh, they can literally be disarmed.

[GiglameshDespair]

Well, I mean... Yeah. If you punch a dude and you're wearing a big metal gauntlet it is going to do more than bare knuckles. A cestus is pretty much the same, being a similar sort of battle glove.

Both are better than bare flesh. It's why knuckledusters were ever a thing.

[Neonivek]

Oh, they can literally be disarmed.

I think you mean ironically be disarmed.

Since the "Literal word for having one's arm removed" is dismembered

[GiglameshDespair]

Did you roll a 1 for your humour check, Neo?

[BlackFlyme]

Well, I mean... Yeah. If you punch a dude and you're wearing a big metal gauntlet it is going to do more than bare knuckles. A cestus is pretty much the same, being a similar sort of battle glove.

Both are better than bare flesh. It's why knuckledusters were ever a thing.

Another thing that I forgot to mention is that the weapons don't provoke attacks of opportunity, while a punch made without Improved Unarmed Strike does provoke.

[Bohandas]

Oh, they can literally be disarmed.

That reminds me of something I've been thinking about. Would a weapon enchantment hat severs a random extremity on a critical hit be worth less, equal, or more than a vorpal weapon? In terms of pure damage damage it'd probably merely instantly disable (or less, depending on saving throws and specific extremity) rather than instantly kill, but it would be useful against creatures with no head or which are all head (like beholders).

[Rolan7]

That got me reading the description for vorpal which is... pretty weird.

Upon a roll of natural 20 (followed by a successful roll to confirm the critical hit), the weapon severs the opponent’s head (if it has one) from its body. Some creatures, such as many aberrations and all oozes, have no heads. Others, such as golems and undead creatures other than vampires, are not affected by the loss of their heads.

First off, I never knew that the critical had to be confirmed.  Because it's not a normal critical, it's specifically a natural 20 (ignores extended crit range).  And it specifically works against (crit-immune) vampires, even though you're "confirming a critical".

But it also claims that all undead other than vampires are unaffected by losing their heads?  Huh?  Have they not heard of ghouls

What a weird passage.  Anyway that enchantment would probably be worth a lot more, if it worked on all criticals and continued to work on undead.  Removing a leg would probably make even an undead perma-prone and moving at 5ft with a full round action (without repair or flight).  Removing an arm isn't that bad either, particularly if living creatures have to make a fort save against shock/pain.  I assume it neatly cauterizes but maybe it doesn't, in which case it'd be pretty lethal.

[BlackFlyme]

Finally got to play Pathfinder again. Out of combat can be a bit boring or induce feelings of inadequacy when you're the Big Dumb Fighter, but it seems a bit worse than in other campaigns due to the fact that we are missing a high-charisma character with ranks invested in social skills to act as the Party Face. Stibbins is trying though. Despite having a minus three charisma. Even for a Dwarf he is pretty uncharismatic.

We wandered from town to town on our way to a large city. Camped out in the night a few times. Fey kept trying to ambush us, but even if we failed our perceptions, the Druid's wolf has a keen nose to help sniff out danger. We also helped a man who was mind-controlled by some mold by beating him over the head until the mold died. Actually, the only one to hurt him instead of the mold was the sorceress who let loose a burning hands spell.

Everyone also had their eyes plucked out by raven swarms at one point. Luckily the warpriest has a pretty good heal skill. Damned birds.

I wrestled a wolf in the snow, and the Druid tried to trip it with his scythe. He told me to let go of the wolf so he could get it, and I refused. I said I'd rather go down with the wolf, so he tripped me. Not willingly, either; he beat my CMD by about five, so he got me good.

We also discussed some of the points I mentioned wanting to talk about on here, including the Paladins of Asmodeus, the non-lethal-bleeding Rogue, a minor bit about Ranger traps, the weirdness of creature-types, Lovecraft's cat, and the usefulness of Goblin condoms.

[Bohandas]

Is this class balanced?

Soothsayer

Saves: Fort (bad), Ref (bad), Will (Good)
Bab: As Wizard
HD: d4

Special Abilities
lv01 Lore, Initiative Bonus +1
lv02 Bonus Feat, Trapfinding
lv03 Advanced Learning
lv04 Skill bonus, Skepticism +1
lv05 Initiative Bonus +2
lv06 Bonus Language
lv07 Advnaced Learning
lv08 Bonus Feat, Uncanny Dodge
lv09 Initiative Bonus +3
lv10 Reflex Save Bonus +1
lv11 Advanced Learning, Skepticism +2
lv12 Bonus Language, Skill Bonus
lv13 Initiative Bonus +4
lv14 Bonus Feat
lv15 Advanced Learning
lv16 Improvede Uncanny Dodge
lv17 Initiative Bonus +5, Skepticism +3
lv18 Linguistics
lv19 Advanced Learning
lv20 Bonus Feat, Reflex Save Bonus +2, Skill Bonus, Unshakable Will


Official Spell progression for this class type
lv01 5/3
lv02 6/4
lv03 6/5
lv04 6/6/3
lv05 6/6/4
lv06 6/6/5/3
lv07 6/6/6/4
lv08 6/6/6/5/3
lv09 6/6/6/6/4
lv10 6/6/6/6/5/3
lv11 6/6/6/6/6/4
lv12 6/6/6/6/6/5/3
lv13 6/6/6/6/6/6/4
lv14 6/6/6/6/6/6/5/3
lv15 6/6/6/6/6/6/6/4
lv16 6/6/6/6/6/6/6/5/3
lv17 6/6/6/6/6/6/6/6/4
lv18 6/6/6/6/6/6/6/6/5/3
lv19 6/6/6/6/6/6/6/6/6/4
lv20 6/6/6/6/6/6/6/6/6/5

though it should be

lv01 5/3
lv02 6/4
lv03 6/5/3
lv04 6/6/4
lv05 6/6/5/3
lv06 6/6/6/4
lv07 6/6/6/5/3
lv08 6/6/6/6/4
lv09 6/6/6/6/5/3
lv10 6/6/6/6/6/4
lv11 6/6/6/6/6/5/3
lv12 6/6/6/6/6/6/4
lv13 6/6/6/6/6/6/5/3
lv14 6/6/6/6/6/6/6/4
lv15 6/6/6/6/6/6/6/5/3
lv16 6/6/6/6/6/6/6/6/4
lv17 6/6/6/6/6/6/6/6/5/3
lv18 6/6/6/6/6/6/6/6/6/4
lv19 6/6/6/6/6/6/6/6/6/5 (/3)
lv20 6/6/6/6/6/6/6/6/6/6 (/4)


Lore: Bonus equal to 1/2 soothsayer level. Stacks with Loremaster lore ability.

Linguistics: Gain a bonus language plus a bonus feat from the following list
Linguistics Bonus Feats: Dark Speech (BoVD, FC1, FC2), Minor Utterance of the Evolving Mind (ToM), Scribe Scroll, Skill Focus (Decipher Script, Forgery, or Truespeech), Utterance of the Evolving Mind (ToM), Words of Creation (BoED)

Reflex Save Bonus: Insight bonus of the indicated amount

Skill bonus: +1 insight bonus each time to one of the Following: Appraise, Decipher Script, Gather Information, Heal, Knowledge (pick one), Sense Motive, Spellcraft

Skepticism: Insight bonus of the listed amount to will saves to disbelieve

Unshakable Will: If a 20th level soothsayer makes a successful Will saving throw against an effect that normally has a partial effect on a successful save, there is instead no effect. An unconscious soothsayer does not gain the benefit of Unshakable Will.

General Bonus Feat List:
Alertness, Appraise Magic Value (CAd), Arcane Disciple (CD), Arcane Thesis (PHB2), Blind Fight, Brew Potion, Communicator (CA), Cool Head (CSco), Diligent, Disguide Spell (CAd), Dodge, Enlarge Spell, Eschew Materials, Extend Spell, Eyes in the Back of Your Head (CW), Graft Flesh (LOM, FF), Greater Spell Focus (Divination only), Hear the Unseen CAd), Improved Initiative, Insightful (CA), Insightful Divination (CM), Insightful Reflexes (CAd), Investigator, Iron Will, Jack of All Trades (CAd), Lightning Reflexes, Magical Aptitude, Magic Disruption (CM), Magic Sensitive (CM), Metamagic School Focus (Divination) (CM), Mystic Backlash (CM), Negotiator, Night Haunt (CA), Obscure Lore (CAd), Open Minded (CAd, EPH), Persuasive, Scribe Scroll, Self-Sufficient, Spell Focus (Abjuration, Divination, Transmutation, or Necromancy), Spell Penetration, Sunlight Eyes (CM), Track, Vatic gaze (PHB2), Widen Spell



Class Skills:
Appraise, Autohypnosis (EPH), Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (all), Listen, Perform (Oratory), Search, Sense Motive, Speak Language, Spellcraft, Spot, Survival, True Speach (ToM), Use Magic Device



Spellcasting:
Intelligence determines spell save DC
Wisdom determines bonus spells
Otherwise as Warmage, Beguiler, and Dread Necromancer.


Spell List

Lv0- Amanuensis (sc), Arcane Mark, Dawn (sc), Detect Poison, Detect Magic, Guidance, Know Direction, Light, Naturewatch (sc), Read Magic, Silent Portal

Lv1- Alarm, Allied Footsteps (cm), Amplify (sc), Appraising Touch (sc), Bloodhound (sc), Comprehend Languages, Dancing Lights, Detect Animals or Plants, Detect Chaos/Evil/Good/Law, Detect Secret Doors, Detect Snares and Pits, Detect Undead, Faerie Fire, Find Temple (sc), Guided Path (sc), Guiding Light (sc), Identify, Instant Search (sc), Know Greatest Enemy (sc), Living Prints (sc), Message, Omen of Peril, Spontaneous Search (sc), Targeting Ray (sc), True Casting (cm) True Strike, Vigilant Slumber (cm), Vision of Glory (sc)

Lv2- Animal Messenger, Circle Dance (sc), Continual Flame, Corpse Candle, Deathwatch, Detect Thoughts, Discern Shapechanger (sc), Erase, Eyes of the Avoral (BOED), Find Traps, Healthful Rest (sc), Hide From Animals, Hold Portal, Listening Lorecall (sc), Locate Object, Low Light Vision (sc), Luminous Gaze (sc), Magic Aura, Master's Touch (sc), Mending, Sanctuary, Scent (sc), See Invisibility, Sleep, Songbird (SC) (oratory only), Speak With Animals, Speak With Plants, Ventriloquism, Zone of Truth

Lv3- Analyze Portal (sc), Anticipate Teleportation (sc), Arcane Sight, Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, Darkvision, Discern Lies, Find the Gap, Fox's Cunning, Glitterdust, Healing Lorecall (sc), Invisibility Purge, Know Opponent (sc), Know Vulnerabilities (sc), Lesser Telepathicv Bond (sc), Listening Coin (sc), Locate Object, Make Whole, Mechanus Mind (SC), One With The Land (sc), Owl's Wisdom, Protection From Good/Evil/Law/Chaos, Speak With Dead, Speechlink (sc), Tongues, Weather Eye (sc)

Lv4- Arcane Eye, Arcane Lock, Assay Spell Resistance, Blessed Sight (BoED), Blindsight (sc), Calm Emotions, Chain of Eyes, Daylight, Detect Scrying, Divination, Enthrall, Helping Hand, Implacable Pursuer (sc), Interplanar Message (sc), Lay of the Land (sc), Locate Creature, Remove Blindness/Deafness, Safety (sc), Scent (sc), Scrying,

Lv5- Commune, Commune With Nature, Contact Other Plane, Deeper Darkvision (sc), Dispel Magic, Dream, Echo Skull, Leomund's Tiny Hut, Magic Circle Against Good/Evil/Law/Chaos, Prying Eyes, Sending, Sonorous Hum (sc), Telepathic Bond, Zone of Revelation (sc)

Lv6- Analyze Dweomer, Break Enchantment, Create Food and Water, Dream Sight (sc), Knock, Legend Lore, Lesser Geas, Nondetection, Probe Thoughts, Psychic Poison (BOVD), Secret Page, Stone Tell, True Seeing, Wall of Light

Lv7- Brain Spider (sc), Dismissal, Greater Arcane Sight, Greater Dispel Magic, Greater Scrying, Illusory Script, Leomund's Secure Shelter, Lesser Planar Binding, Mass Fox's Cunning, Mass Owl's Wisdom, Telepathy Block (BOED), Vision

Lv8- Cure Light Wounds, Discern Location, Geas, Greater Prying Eyes, Hindsight (sc), Lesser Planar Ally, Mental Pinnacle (EPH), Moment of Prescience, Scramble Portal (sc)

Lv9- Astral Projection, Awaken, Banishment, Cure Moderate Wounds, Eye of Power (sc), Fiendish Clarity (BOVD), Foresight, Planar Binding, Seal Portal (sc)

EDIT:
fixed a typo in the spell progression

[Jimmy]

First impression: Lose trapfinding. Doesn't really mesh with the theme of the class being a divination/support class who just suddenly knows how to disable complex mechanical devices. If you want a full progression caster with trapfinding then just play a Beguiler.

A base class should have some dead levels in it. Your version has full caster progression plus candy at every level including a bunch of free feats. The spell selection for the class is obviously weakened to compensate, but that still doesn't remove the impression I get that you've loaded this class with freebies every level like it was a prestige with no prerequisites.

I see no reason to have Cure Light Wounds or Cure Moderate Wounds on the spell list except to allow you to use wands for free without needing a Use Magic Device check. Get rid of them from the list.

Lose Spot and Listen from the class skill list, and since you didn't list it, I'd rate this class at 4+Int skill points per level. I'd recommend comparing the class skill list vs. the Loremaster prestige list to determine what would be appropriate. Diplomacy and Sense Motive are two more skills I'd rate as being worth cutting too.

I'm not seeing what this character does in combat. How would this class contribute at level 5 vs. a Troll? At level 10 vs. a Fire Giant?

[scriver]

About trapfinding: since trapfinding is both the ability to detect and disable traps of DC 20+, I think it would be mire fitting to the class theme if it only got the finding half of it.

Then again, it just struck me, if the idea is that a person that can foresee/see beyond sight gets a bonus to defend against hidden dangers, then that would be something like Uncanny Dodge instead, I think.

Edit: Evasion. I meant Evasion.