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Author Topic: Beginner's Mafia LV: Masked Trouble - Scum Victory  (Read 48721 times)

Shakerag

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LV: Masked Trouble - Maybe here (5/9)
« Reply #450 on: July 31, 2015, 01:30:46 pm »

Loud Whispers:
Unvote Urist McCoder, vote Shakerag.
It is interesting to me that you have declared Urist McCoder to be a townie, based off of perceivable noobiness. What noobiness have you perceived? You gave no reason.
That is not the easiest thing to quantify.  A lot of it is experience from being an IC before and seeing lots of new players.  He has a ... sloppy style of playing.  It's not very focused/directed nor refined.  It doesn't seem to tighten up with time like I would expect someone who is being coached by a scum IC.  He seems to be rather open and chatty, and newbie scum players don't tend to act like that.

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Already you've written off someone for no declared reason. H4zarD1 you write off because they voted for themselves. Odd, as that rules out nothing - whether it is a result of H4zarD1 quitting due to RL obligations rather unceremoniously or quitting due to H4zarD1's interactions with you, even I can tell there is nothing orthodox about a Townie or Scum doing that. So that's another person ruled out for dubious reasons.
Again, experience.  Also I mentioned other points as to why I thought he was town which you conveniently ignored.

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Then you focus in on the two most ardent scrub scumhunters and declare the fervent scumhunting as evidence of a scum team. Playing fairly well = Scumtell? Ha! Is someone getting scared of being caught? Sounds like it.
The idea is that scum should be ardently "scumhunting" so as to appear town.  Yes, you and Tawarochir have very well constructed posts.  However, technically you have both failed to lynch any scum yet.  If the idea of scumhunting is to lynch scum ... then how good of a job of scumhunting have you really been doing, hmm? 
And it's cute that you'd think actually be scared of being caught -if- I was scum.

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And yeah you're right NQT correctly identified FOU as town through statistics and experience whilst I incorrectly assuaged FOU's newby panicking as deliberate lies through inexperience, but more to the point - McCoder, Taro and I were all convinced FOU was scummy because he was doing his best to appear scummy, and no one else appeared as scummy because of this and 4maskwolf and H4zarD1 lurking; as you said, it is better to scumhunt than lynch the lurkers, as you can always deal with the lurkers later. All the same, you only mention Taro and I. You also fail to mention NQT incorrectly identifying HLG as scum, whilst I was the one correctly guessing HLG was much more likely just being a newby Town. I.e. you're cutting out everything that suggests I'm town and substituting it with nothing but your opinion, which you're certain is sufficient to lynch me on.
Fair enough.  So how were you able to identify HLG as newbie town but not FoU?  You might have mentioned it before, but let's hear it fresh.

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Good scumhunting = You are scum
I've gone over this already.  And that's oversimplifying the point.  In the context of a beginner's game, a "newbie" performing strongly is cause for an eyebrow raise.  Yes, it's a bit meta.  I don't like to rely on meta arguments, but I use the tools that I have.

[You'll see the term "meta" argument thrown around a bit if you decide to stay in this subforum.  Basically that means using information that isn't necessarily given in that game to give reason for someone being scum.  Usually this takes the form of "PlayerA is always aggressive as town in previous games.  PlayerA is often lurky when scum in previous games.  PlayerA is lurky in this game, so therefore PlayerA is likely scum."  Some players are okay with using these kinds of arguments.  I tend to feel that they're a little cheat-y.]

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I haven't interacted with Taro in the sense that I haven't asked Taro many questions, because I'm pretty sure Taro is town.
Would you like to elaborate as to why?

[quote[And on that other point, the way I see it, the only thing better than having scum IC coaching is to be an IC scum. One who is playing fairly well; you? I'll go with yes. If you were scum you could assert authority through your greater experience and sit back giving advice and bants in great walls of text without actually really saying much about yourself, which is what you have done. And frankly I still don't know myLOS from LYLOS, any coaching is sorely missing from my game.[/quote]
It's funny, because I used the exact same argument (against Jim) in my first beginner's game.  I was wrong then too. 
If I was scum, I could do that, yes.  That would also completely defeat the purpose of me trying to teach you anything. 
And if you had read my post in which I voted you, I explained the difference between MYLO and LYLO.  Well, mostly.

[To elaborate, MYLO is mislynch -and- lose.  You have 4 town and 2 scum.  A town is mislynched.  Now you have 3 town and two scum.  Another town is night killed.  Now you have 2 town and 2 scum, which is a scum victory.  MYLO can possibly be survived if the night kill is prevented.  The ideal gameplay for MYLO is to no lynch, so that scum kills a town in the night, and now you have one fewer player to narrow down who is scum from.

LYLO is lynch -or- lose.  You have 3 town and 2 scum.  If a town is lynched, the game is over.  If no one is lynched, a town is killed in the night and the game is over.  It's rare for LYLO to extend for more than one day, but not completely unheard of.
]

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I dropped the wall of text because I was done; I had my convictions, I didn't have much spare time - but in truth, even if I did whatever else I could have done wouldn't have surmounted to much, as I had no other hunches beyond FOU.
Fair enough if you were out of time.  Otherwise it's always good to keep tabs on multiple people as you can.  This way you're not left flat-footed when your main target is lynched/killed/cleared/etc.

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[No reasons given beyond muh feels]
I'm after your scummy ass today.  If it means that much to you, I can give you my notes on Tawa.

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Plus I do like how any evidence which would verify that I am clearly town is to you, further proof I am scum, so much so that were I to reveal I were cop...
Not necessarily.  But I really do think you're scum.  However, I have had instances where someone whom I am convinced is scum manages to persuade me otherwise.  It's good to be firm in your convictions, but one should always be able to re-evaluate everything in light of new information.


Ahh, my dog, so much text.  I'll have to finish the rest of this replay later because my lunch break is over  >_>



Unvote
Loud Whispers

Resetting dat timer, yo.



[Teneb, I am not a doublevoter.]

Teneb

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LV: Masked Trouble - Replacement Needed (5/9)
« Reply #451 on: July 31, 2015, 01:37:05 pm »

[Teneb, I am not a doublevoter.]
Sorry. Stuff has been... hectic over here.
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What if “slammed in the ass by dead philosophers” is actually the thing which will progress our culture to the next step?

Shakerag

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LV: Masked Trouble - Replacement Needed (5/9)
« Reply #452 on: July 31, 2015, 01:42:20 pm »

[Teneb, I am not a doublevoter.]
Sorry. Stuff has been... hectic over here.
Don't worry about it.  Shit happens.

Urist McCoder

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LV: Masked Trouble - Replacement Needed (5/9)
« Reply #453 on: July 31, 2015, 02:06:13 pm »

I realy feel like you haven't yet answered my question. That last post didn't really say almost anything.
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Teneb

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LV: Masked Trouble - Replacement Needed (5/9)
« Reply #454 on: July 31, 2015, 03:08:25 pm »

H4zardZ1 has been replaced by DoctorMcTaalik
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Monstrous Manual: D&D in DF
Quote from: Tack
What if “slammed in the ass by dead philosophers” is actually the thing which will progress our culture to the next step?

DoctorMcTaalik

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LV: Masked Trouble - Replacement Needed (5/9)
« Reply #455 on: July 31, 2015, 03:17:40 pm »

First thing's first:

Unvote
DoctorMcTaalik.

Second thing coming at a later point; have to do some reading first.
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Tawa

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LV: Masked Trouble - Doctor is in (5/9)
« Reply #456 on: August 01, 2015, 12:55:37 pm »

Shakerag, are you enjoying your discussion with your scumbuddy Loud Whispers? It's cute how you're accusing each other like this, really.
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Shakerag

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LV: Masked Trouble - Replacement Needed (5/9)
« Reply #457 on: August 03, 2015, 11:01:09 am »

DoctorMcTaalik:
Second thing coming at a later point; have to do some reading first.
You've had a good amount of time for some reading.  Ready to do some posting?


Tawarochir:
Shakerag, are you enjoying your discussion with your scumbuddy Loud Whispers? It's cute how you're accusing each other like this, really.
Not surprised by that vote.  Two questions (to start, at least):
-So, why do you think LW and I are scumbuddies? 
-Why do you think two scum, who have avoided lynching until now, would suddenly try bussing each other?

unvote
Loud Whispers

[Can't let the game end now without having taught DMT anything.]

Tawa

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LV: Masked Trouble - Doctor is in (5/9)
« Reply #458 on: August 03, 2015, 12:05:51 pm »

So, why do you think LW and I are scumbuddies? 
Ever since you showed up and replaced 4mask, you've focused most of your energy on going after LW. He's done basically the same thing. That wouldn't be too bad on its own, but you've only put real effort on pursuing a player who's been playing well. The argument behind that is WIFOM to the extreme... so you'd think that somebody so experienced at the game would avoid it.
Why do you think two scum, who have avoided lynching until now, would suddenly try bussing each other?
4mask wasn't active at all before, so LW didn't have him around long enough or have enough info to make it look like anything other than bussing. Now that you've become active and LW has established his reputation as a fervent scumhunter, disguising it has become possible.
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DoctorMcTaalik

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LV: Masked Trouble - Doctor is in (5/9)
« Reply #459 on: August 03, 2015, 12:16:56 pm »

Just so you don't think I'm lurking: I am literally writing up my player assessments now. Sorry it's taken me so long.
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DoctorMcTaalik

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LV: Masked Trouble - Doctor is in (5/9)
« Reply #460 on: August 03, 2015, 04:16:13 pm »

My apologies for the lack of posting. The following are my current readings on players, in ascending order of probable scumminess (and spoilered for your convenience).
Shakerag
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Tawarochir
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Urist McCoder
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Loud Whispers
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Shakerag

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LV: Masked Trouble - Doctor is in (5/9)
« Reply #461 on: August 03, 2015, 04:53:54 pm »

stuff

[So far so good for replacing in late game.  Now you need to take that information you've accumulated and use it to ask questions and press a case on whomever you think is scum.

Also, I'm still a little IRL busy, so I'll let DMT continue to get his feet wet before hopping back in.

Everyone who isn't DMT should use this opportunity to analyze his behavior (by which I mean interact with him, not just passively watch), as H4zardZ1 did practically nothing D2/D3.
]

Tawa

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LV: Masked Trouble - Doctor is in (5/9)
« Reply #462 on: August 03, 2015, 11:07:32 pm »

How do you objectively judge activity? By post count? Because you have him beat 13-6 on that one. And most of his posts were either irrelevant, or focused on (poorly) defending himself from Shakerag. I guess he beat you to posting a reply after Fallacy got lynched, but that post didn't contain anything pertinent to the scumhunt.
Well, what he was doing certainly seemed like scumhunting to me. He didn't manage to lynch any scum, but he was looking, or doing a very good job at pretending he was doing so.

He also had the giant text wall. But most of this is hazy hindsight, so take my word here with a pinch of salt.

Urist McCoder! Answer my freaking question!
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Urist McCoder

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LV: Masked Trouble - Doctor is in (5/9)
« Reply #463 on: August 04, 2015, 06:54:51 am »

Pfp
I did answer it. Loud whispers has posted 2 woft which is not as useful as constant pressure on scum, which you two hie have provided.

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Teneb

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LV: Masked Trouble - Doctor is in (5/9)
« Reply #464 on: August 04, 2015, 09:23:24 am »

The game will end in 1:30 hours if no one votes.

Votecount

Shakerag[3]: Urist McCoder, Loud Whispers, Tawarochir
Loud Whispers[1]: Shakerag

Not Voting: DoctorMcTaalik
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Monstrous Manual: D&D in DF
Quote from: Tack
What if “slammed in the ass by dead philosophers” is actually the thing which will progress our culture to the next step?
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