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[Crashmaster]

I held out for 371M mutagen for the first ascension. Thing are going pretty damn fast at the start. Nearing 4th nexus and thinking of going lepidoptera, bat, swarmwarp for mutations.

At the end of my first run I dumped all my cocooned larva and enough meat rushes into territory to buff up the territory/sec rate and therefore the territory rush amount allowing me to rush quite a few territory expansions for an extra hit of mutagen.

[Toaster]

Your next hatchery has a 20% chance to award 23,745 mutagen.

Your next expansion has a 20% chance to award 26,210 mutagen.

I realise I'm still a relatively low-level pleb, but...

This goes up exponentially.

[Criptfeind]

So, in case this was still in question for anyone, I've played around with my respecs (since I've had some anyone from accessions) and I can definitely confirm that although clone is better before you ascend, with mutations added into them, swarm warp definitely becomes better. I don't know what the actual break point is, but even at just 100 million mutation warp is better. So. Yeah.

[beorn080]

So, in case this was still in question for anyone, I've played around with my respecs (since I've had some anyone from accessions) and I can definitely confirm that although clone is better before you ascend, with mutations added into them, swarm warp definitely becomes better. I don't know what the actual break point is, but even at just 100 million mutation warp is better. So. Yeah.

I'd do the math, but I'm not really competent to actually break it down. But it makes sense, since clone is only exponential until you reach the cap, then its a linear gain, whereas swarmwarp is always an exponential gain on meat units because of how they work. Actually, one sec.

The number I see is 100000x you're production, before bats and clone mutation, for clone larva. That's about 28 hours worth of production, ASSUMING you have enough larva/cocoons to always produce that max. That's the kicker there, I think. You need to effectively "waste" larva in banking up for Clone. Plus, you can cast warp 6 times to a clones one. Based on my math, swarm warp starts edging out Clone Larva, base clone larva, when it hits the 6 hour mark. And at that point its pretty much always better, unless you have absurd amounts of larva, as it also lets meat units run for that time. Again, with the caveat that I am probably doing the math wrong.

[Donuts]

I accidentally deleted my browser cache and stuff. GG, several millions of millions of millions of stuff.

[Toaster]

The backup to Dropbox works really well, especially if you play on multiple PCs.

[Criptfeind]

So, in case this was still in question for anyone, I've played around with my respecs (since I've had some anyone from accessions) and I can definitely confirm that although clone is better before you ascend, with mutations added into them, swarm warp definitely becomes better. I don't know what the actual break point is, but even at just 100 million mutation warp is better. So. Yeah.

I'd do the math, but I'm not really competent to actually break it down. But it makes sense, since clone is only exponential until you reach the cap, then its a linear gain, whereas swarmwarp is always an exponential gain on meat units because of how they work. Actually, one sec.

The number I see is 100000x you're production, before bats and clone mutation, for clone larva. That's about 28 hours worth of production, ASSUMING you have enough larva/cocoons to always produce that max. That's the kicker there, I think. You need to effectively "waste" larva in banking up for Clone. Plus, you can cast warp 6 times to a clones one. Based on my math, swarm warp starts edging out Clone Larva, base clone larva, when it hits the 6 hour mark. And at that point its pretty much always better, unless you have absurd amounts of larva, as it also lets meat units run for that time. Again, with the caveat that I am probably doing the math wrong.

I think it's a bit complected, because of the raw numbers of units needed, when you start getting into things like hive neurons and such it seems, for me at least, to enter a cycle, where the amount of shit you need to move to the next tier eventually becomes so much that the larva you produce becomes insignificant. I think that's what really kills clone early, as eventually even clone can't keep up with it, and only your own production can. Which swarm warp boosts. So at lower levels clone probably stays a lot better for a lot longer, but at higher levels it becomes a lot worse a lot faster then just the numbers would suggest. I mean, it's a cycle, it's not always like that, and clone is still crazy at the good points of the cycle, but at the bad points the only thing that helps is swarm warp.

[Neonivek]

You can hold off on  Swampwarp until you have enough for three mutations

Larva Production
Lieparta (I cannot spell it)
Swampwarp (Get this last... rely on clone in the mean time)

There is never too much of a need to buy clone mutation because as Criptfeind says... Later on the limiter ends up being production and almost no amounts of larva can sustain it.

But then again I never got the clone upgrade... Which does make it so each use of Clone Larva gives you a weeks worth of Larva or even a month's... I havn't tested it, but I guess I could...

THAT and Swampwarp also makes further expansions and "improved" things come much faster.

[Crashmaster]

So I ascended two days ago with 371mil mutagen. Lepi, bat and warp, set up nexuses and energy units, 200k, 1mil, 1mil respectively. Used swarmwarp 25-30 time yesterday morning and night and once this morning spending all larva after each warp to compound the progress. Last nigh larva production from hatcheries greatly overtook the inactive mutagen bonus so I upped the bat and warp to 27mil and 100m respectively and am now getting 1day 5hours production every 15minutes. Suddenly at 100B neural clusters and 4.7T mutagen.
This run's been a lot more fun.

[Xantalos]

Aha, finally got over the 220 million mutagen mark!
...
So what mutations would you guys recommend I take? First ascension.

[miauw62]

Lepi, Bat and Warp is good to get off the ground, but mutation power scales to order of magnitude. (so you get 200% warp bonus for every order of magnitude of mutagen you put into the warp mut, etc) and each ten mutagen produces one larva per second, so it's best to keep some mutagen handy until you can produce a lot of larvae by yourself.

[Micro102]

I finally understand the meaning of cocoons. Since there is a limit on cloning, you always want to have the limit saved in cocoons so you can spend the rest freely.

[Demonic Spoon]

I've been converted over to the Swarmwarp side myself personally, less irritating when you buy a bunch of larvae production upgrades and the clone max jumps.

EDIT: Man, Swarmwarp must have been really broken back when it restored energy as well. I can just imagine it...

[ChairmanPoo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DDjrm-GLzA

[beorn080]

I've been converted over to the Swarmwarp side myself personally, less irritating when you buy a bunch of larvae production upgrades and the max jumps.

EDIT: Man, Swarmwarp must have been really broken back when it restored energy as well. I can just imagine it...

Only use swamp warp after your first ascend. Before that, clone is far better due to how many larva it gives, and the lack of mutagen boosting larva production. However, post first ascent, swamp warp IS hands down better.