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[My Name is Immaterial]

What you're citing as an issue is bad, but a nice part of 3.5e was the sheer level of customization you could get into. It makes it easy to make more diverse builds from a given number of potential classes, which is the philosophy I'd rather they pursue (as opposed to 4e's 'every class will do the same thing in the same ways with different fluff').

I should clarify that I want mechanical customisation - as in, a character that is played differently because the class features are mechanically different. Fluff and such is for the player/DM to decide on.

As I mentioned, there are 40 different subclasses that are all mechanically different. Want to play a front-line fighting 20 Bard? There's a sub-class for that (College of Valor). Want to play a character from the Avatar: The Last Airbender/Legend of Korra universe? There's a sub-class for that (Monk, Way of the Four Elements). Want to use a 4e Power-esque system?  There's a sub-class for that (Fighter, Battle Master). Want to leave your fate to the dice and turn a vibrant shade of blue, or grow a long beard of feathers, or turn into a potted plant?  There's a sub-class for that (Sorcerer, Wild Magic). Even the eight different schools of magic have multiple unique abilities: for instance, Divination gives you the ability to change other's rolls, Evocation lets you Overchannel your spells, and Transmutation gives you a Philosopher's Stone.

[Kadzar]

From what I've read, WotC plans to put out less frequent but more high-quality splats for 5e. In the meantime, they're also running a monthly feature on their website called "Unearthed Arcana" where they release preliminary supplement material for free. The material is supposed to be like the earlier playtest material, meaning it's not final and will probably change according to player input, but it will do well enough for now.

They've already released the first update, and it's for Eberron stuff. (Not a huge surprise, since, if I recall correctly, Mike Mearls is a big fan of the setting.)

Also, I realized I should probably post this to the Tabletop Games Thread, too.

[Orange Wizard]

What you're citing as an issue is bad, but a nice part of 3.5e was the sheer level of customization you could get into. It makes it easy to make more diverse builds from a given number of potential classes, which is the philosophy I'd rather they pursue (as opposed to 4e's 'every class will do the same thing in the same ways with different fluff').

I should clarify that I want mechanical customisation - as in, a character that is played differently because the class features are mechanically different. Fluff and such is for the player/DM to decide on.

As I mentioned, there are 40 different subclasses that are all mechanically different. Want to play a front-line fighting 20 Bard? There's a sub-class for that (College of Valor). Want to play a character from the Avatar: The Last Airbender/Legend of Korra universe? There's a sub-class for that (Monk, Way of the Four Elements). Want to use a 4e Power-esque system?  There's a sub-class for that (Fighter, Battle Master). Want to leave your fate to the dice and turn a vibrant shade of blue, or grow a long beard of feathers, or turn into a potted plant?  There's a sub-class for that (Sorcerer, Wild Magic). Even the eight different schools of magic have multiple unique abilities: for instance, Divination gives you the ability to change other's rolls, Evocation lets you Overchannel your spells, and Transmutation gives you a Philosopher's Stone.

40 is not enough!

[My Name is Immaterial]

From what I've read, WotC plans to put out less frequent but more high-quality splats for 5e. In the meantime, they're also running a monthly feature on their website called "Unearthed Arcana" where they release preliminary supplement material for free. The material is supposed to be like the earlier playtest material, meaning it's not final and will probably change according to player input, but it will do well enough for now.

This is all good news.

40 is not enough!

It should be mentioned that they removed Prestige Classes in favor of subclasses. So from the 3.5 starting stuff (PHB, MM, DMG), there are 26 classes, (not including NPC classes because no one cares) 7 core races, and a bunch of monster races.

[Rex Invictus]

People still play 3.5?

What're you, a 5ther?

Gods forbid that you're a 4th Editionite.

Pathfinder all the way.

I like 5e. <snip>

My main issue with 5e is that it's like WotC tried to make a narrative game (follow the leader etc) but kept ALL the luggage of D&D and it resulted in some horrible, poorly built mess of a system. It's like a worse version of FATE.

So to answer the original question.
Paladins suck. You cant do anything fun.
All your gold is spent on armor, items, weapons and charity, the team openly hates you because you think your god loves you. You arnt as good a fighter as a barbarian or fighter, not as good at divine spell casting as a cleric or druid. Wow you get a magical holy mount... and the bard usually gets better mounts.
You live by a silly credo and arnt alowed to stab the fucking annoying quest giver in the throat after he gives you less than the original amount of gold.
The only paladin worthy feature is blackguard. And they are best after lvl 11 paladin.
So you are forced to roleplay a holy warrior loser until then.
You want to play a fighter that casts divine spells go cleric with a netural god of war that uses a greatsword.
Yes ive done it, yes its op, yes I play the evil/chaotic gtfomw character.

Thank you for your time

And compare that with Pathfinder, where paladins take up a good niche and have a wide variety of builds for them to go for. From sword and board fighter to archer to two handed fighter to sword and board healer (oradin for the win).

Smite Evil is so good now that it almost feels dirty to watch an enemy MELT under your attacks.

[Bohandas]

What you're citing as an issue is bad, but a nice part of 3.5e was the sheer level of customization you could get into. It makes it easy to make more diverse builds from a given number of potential classes, which is the philosophy I'd rather they pursue (as opposed to 4e's 'every class will do the same thing in the same ways with different fluff').

I should clarify that I want mechanical customisation - as in, a character that is played differently because the class features are mechanically different. Fluff and such is for the player/DM to decide on.

As I mentioned, there are 40 different subclasses that are all mechanically different. Want to play a front-line fighting 20 Bard? There's a sub-class for that (College of Valor). Want to play a character from the Avatar: The Last Airbender/Legend of Korra universe? There's a sub-class for that (Monk, Way of the Four Elements). Want to use a 4e Power-esque system?  There's a sub-class for that (Fighter, Battle Master). Want to leave your fate to the dice and turn a vibrant shade of blue, or grow a long beard of feathers, or turn into a potted plant?  There's a sub-class for that (Sorcerer, Wild Magic). Even the eight different schools of magic have multiple unique abilities: for instance, Divination gives you the ability to change other's rolls, Evocation lets you Overchannel your spells, and Transmutation gives you a Philosopher's Stone.

Have they shit on the wild mage kit again like they did to the 3.5 version?

[My Name is Immaterial]

I like 5e. <snip>

My main issue with 5e is that it's like WotC tried to make a narrative game (follow the leader etc) but kept ALL the luggage of D&D and it resulted in some horrible, poorly built mess of a system. It's like a worse version of FATE.

What do you think is worse/bad about 5e's mechanics, specifically?

Have they shit on the wild mage kit again like they did to the 3.5 version?

I don't believe so, but I'd never seen a Wild Mage in 3.5. Do you mean Wilder?
The Sorcerer sub-classes aren't too powerful, but that's mostly to offset their metamagic-esque abilities, as I figure it. Wild Magic is about alternating rolls, and access to a table of random effects.

[Rex Invictus]

I like 5e. <snip>

My main issue with 5e is that it's like WotC tried to make a narrative game (follow the leader etc) but kept ALL the luggage of D&D and it resulted in some horrible, poorly built mess of a system. It's like a worse version of FATE.

What do you think is worse/bad about 5e's mechanics, specifically?

The "roll two dice" mechanic is awful in a system that HAS mechanical bonuses (and arguably a really dumb mechanic anyway). The cancellation of bonuses to work out if I roll two dice and which set of two dice I should roll is more complex than adding some bonuses.

The classes feel very bland in play. I could go on.

If you want to play something like 5e, go for Dungeon World instead. Fast running, narrative based system that is REALLY enjoyable.

[Bohandas]

Have they shit on the wild mage kit again like they did to the 3.5 version?

I don't believe so, but I'd never seen a Wild Mage in 3.5. Do you mean Wilder?

No. They had a Wild Mage prestige class in Complete Arcane, but it sucked.

[That Wolf]

My 3.5 group just ended, do you guys have any suggestions on a d20 fantasy game system to play,
Some of us have suggested 5e and im thinkin of doing loz monsters and lore but its not a solidified idea.

[Rex Invictus]

My 3.5 group just ended, do you guys have any suggestions on a d20 fantasy game system to play,
Some of us have suggested 5e and im thinkin of doing loz monsters and lore but its not a solidified idea.

Pathfinder if you're going traditional fantasy.

FATE isn't a d20 system, but it'd let you do some seriously cool shit.

Seriously, trust me when I say don't do 5e.

[Bohandas]

My 3.5 group just ended, do you guys have any suggestions on a d20 fantasy game system to play,

How about 3.5?

[My Name is Immaterial]

The "roll two dice" mechanic is awful in a system that HAS mechanical bonuses (and arguably a really dumb mechanic anyway). The cancellation of bonuses to work out if I roll two dice and which set of two dice I should roll is more complex than adding some bonuses.

I don't think you understand the Advantage system. I'd quote it, but it doesn't want to be copy and pasted. It's only in rare situations that you roll twice, when granted Advantage by certain special abilities and spells, and it only affects d20 rolls. As a DM, I've used as a one-size-fits-all 'You are (un)likely to succeed at this'. It saves on paperwork, confusion and looking up specific rules. It certainally makes combat faster than 3.5/Pathfinder.

The classes feel very bland in play. I could go on.

I like them. Can't actually argue over a preference or matter of opinion.

No. They had a Wild Mage prestige class in Complete Arcane, but it sucked.

Huh. Well, from what I can see, they did not shit on Wild Magic in 5e.

My 3.5 group just ended, do you guys have any suggestions on a d20 fantasy game system to play,
Some of us have suggested 5e and im thinkin of doing loz monsters and lore but its not a solidified idea.

I'll recommend 5e (big surprise) for the reasons I've already mentioned.

[Rex Invictus]

The "roll two dice" mechanic is awful in a system that HAS mechanical bonuses (and arguably a really dumb mechanic anyway). The cancellation of bonuses to work out if I roll two dice and which set of two dice I should roll is more complex than adding some bonuses.

I don't think you understand the Advantage system. I'd quote it, but it doesn't want to be copy and pasted. It's only in rare situations that you roll twice, when granted Advantage by certain special abilities and spells, and it only affects d20 rolls. As a DM, I've used as a one-size-fits-all 'You are (un)likely to succeed at this'. It saves on paperwork, confusion and looking up specific rules. It certainally makes combat faster than 3.5/Pathfinder.

Seriously, try Dungeon World. Dungeon World is what I would've been happy with 5e to be. It's fast, it's semi-narrative, it's FUN to play.

It's just everything 5e should've been.

The classes feel very bland in play. I could go on.

I like them. Can't actually argue over a preference or matter of opinion.

That's fair enough.

[Sergarr]

5e is the best edition without question

they've actually made feat, you know, FEATS, and not simple "+1 to hit with a specific weapon" bullshit that 3e has turned them into.