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Poll

What's your opinion on free will?

I am religious and believe in free will
- 71 (27.7%)
I am religious and do not believe in free will
- 10 (3.9%)
I am not religious and believe in free will
- 114 (44.5%)
I am not religious and do not believe in free will
- 61 (23.8%)

Total Members Voted: 251


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Author Topic: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion  (Read 681750 times)

Egan_BW

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #6540 on: May 03, 2019, 05:07:20 pm »

Nah, fuck that guy.
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Frumple

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #6541 on: May 03, 2019, 05:43:33 pm »

Hydras tend to be dragon-adjacent. All you'd be doing is spreading a plague of demi-hydras.
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Urist McScoopbeard

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #6542 on: May 04, 2019, 12:02:15 pm »

Hydras tend to be dragon-adjacent. All you'd be doing is spreading a plague of demi-hydras.

Are you shaming my religious beliefs? What if I WANT the world to end in a tidal wave of multi headed snake dragons?
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Frumple

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #6543 on: May 04, 2019, 03:47:14 pm »

Then I'd say find yourself a hydra and get to fornicating. Best of luck, tell me when the half-hydra electric cars start showing up.
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Castlecliff

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #6544 on: May 05, 2019, 04:11:23 am »

Don't worry I powerleveleded on a rabbit and burnt my flesh off my body in the first town I spawned in. Now no hydras will ever rule the world because my savecrocodile is corrupted with corruption arrows, the upgrade slot was expensive, worth it. I don't need to eat because the sun feeds me.
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Gentlefish

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #6545 on: May 07, 2019, 10:20:50 am »

What

hector13

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #6546 on: May 07, 2019, 07:35:43 pm »

The first part about rabbits and burning skin off was DF adventure mode. Not sure what the rest is about.
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the way your fingertips plant meaningless soliloquies makes me think you are the true evil among us.

KittyTac

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #6547 on: May 08, 2019, 12:14:59 am »

The first part about rabbits and burning skin off was DF adventure mode. Not sure what the rest is about.
Well, that's what a drunkpost/highpost looks like.
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Castlecliff

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #6548 on: May 08, 2019, 01:52:23 am »

Obviously
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Magistrum

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #6549 on: May 08, 2019, 05:50:35 pm »

It is known.
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Frumple

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #6550 on: May 08, 2019, 06:21:42 pm »

First hymnal, first verse, Church of the Gun:

By Beholster Eye, Dragun Tooth,
Gungeon Wind do whisper One Truth.
Body the floor, Bullet through roof,
Ammo Willing, Past-killing Gun Shall Shoot.
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Rolan7

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #6551 on: May 25, 2019, 01:51:43 am »

Had the honor of attending a funeral yesterday.  It was, altogether, a very cathartic experience- much like a reunion, but with odd situations:

First, we (the family) saw each other and had time to chat catch up.  In some cases we hadn't really talked in a long time.  It was somewhat enlightening.

Then we drove to the church and congregated there, just family and the clergy.  Basically the same situation, but in a Christian setting.  I helped with the AV setup, and showed a younger-cousin a romhack of Pokemon Crystal Gen 2 (after listening to him describe Fortnite till he literally ran out of things to say).

Then we went into a small room, then filed back out ceremoniously to sit in the same pews.  A line of the deceased acquaintances and friends filed past, giving condolences to his direct family who were seated front-row.

I have been in that front row.  I don't know what to say about the experience.  You shake the hand of dozens of people you don't know, who your close family member supposedly knew.  What can you do?  Take them at their word, and accept their condolences.  Be grateful that they remember your family member.  Grieve in secret.

After an astoundingly long time (my uncle was gregarious, and socially-active) we had a service.  And, I guess, this is where I get thread-relevant.

The service was split between three members of the church.  And I have to credit their art, they customized their speeches to different aspects of my family member's life.  By formal and informal name, his outward self and his personable self.  Sharing anecdotes from a decade ago, around the time he met my aunt.

Around the time he found the church, and wasn't interested.  They skip over that, mostly, though they did make light of how he got along with the women.
He would have laughed, but still...

This is where I get salty, I guess.  They spun his life as a redemption arc, like they saved him from a life of sin at the *bowling alley* and such.  Again, he would have laughed.  He never cared for all that, he didn't even go to church for his wife my aunt.

Until he had trouble breathing, and went in.  And he had cancer everywhere.
And in utter desperation, he accepted the church, and Jesus, and whatever would save him from what he was going through.
I have been in dark fucking places, separated from his situation by degrees.  I wanted any supernatural thing to get me through.  I sought God, and hearing nothing, I sought devils.  Also nothing.

But his family is devoutly Christian, and that's how his story is told now.
A lie.

The clergy remembered him well, talking about his generosity and joviality.  He was kind and generous, particularly to us kids.  He had a rough upbringing but shared happiness with everyone he met.
He volunteered for a youth basketball game- and they took a sizeable aside to, literally, encourage everyone to witness Jesus to young kids through such programs.
He wasn't
fucking
Christian

...But he begged at the end, and I guess I will too.  Again.
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HmH

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #6552 on: May 25, 2019, 09:25:11 am »

Yeah. It's easy to laugh at vaguely good-sounding promises when you're doing all right.
Not nearly as easy when you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. Spirituality is tempting when your life sucks.

But that doesn't mean I'll ever embrace any of the mainstream religions.
Not even when I'm helpless and desperate for a way out. Not even when everything in this world seems to turn against me.
I was in a bad place before, and while I failed to stay a staunch atheist during that trial, I did not stoop any lower than self-indulgent escapism.
It's not even a matter of principle: I wouldn't be so sure about it if it were. Life is sometimes very good at making you break your principles.
It's fear, pure and simple.
I'd rather believe in a nice afterlife of my own devising, as I have done before in my darkest moments so far, than accept any of the utterly horrifying afterlives the mainstream religions have to offer their believers.

What's so horrifying about, say, going to Heaven? It's an eternity of chilling out amidst the righteous... and being helpless to rescue anyone you care about from an eternity of torture.
People usually dismiss that idea, because no one really thinks that could happen to them - but almost everyone has a friend who killed himself, or an atheistic relative who died before they could be converted, someone they wouldn't want to hurt but still believe would hurt in the afterlife.

Let's liven it up with a concrete example. Nothing as hard to conceive of as burning forever, let's go for something that hits closer to home.
Suppose you had a kid, and he went off the straight and narrow. Killed somebody in a bar brawl, or maybe got into drug trafficking and did poorly enough to get caught.
Would you enjoy it if your wayward, wicked kid served life in a really, really tough prison, getting beaten up for the guards' amusement and dropping the soap for the burliest guys in the lockup, while being televised so everyone in your idyllic well-to-do neighborhood could watch and make lewd comments?
And if you were in such a situation, would you want everyone to be immortal so he'd suffer forever but you'd get to enjoy all that life has to offer?

If it's yes to both, then congrats, you'll probably like it in heaven.
As for me, I think I'd rather be dead.

...Whatever, I'm probably too cynical for my own good. Lack of imagination is bliss.

UPD: Whoops, got carried away here.
Believe it or not, Rolan7, my initial intention was to cheer you up about this:
Quote
...But he begged at the end, and I guess I will too.  Again.
And then somehow I got derailed.
Funny how bearing good news so often turns into yelling about fire and brimstone.

My point, or at least the point I initially wanted to make, is that you have a choice even when life has you cornered and you see no escape.
And that choice isn't just "atheism or religion"; there are other options, some of them less harmful to your emotional well-being.

The choice between spirituality and (spiritual) nihilism won't have much effect on what happens, obviously. When shit hits the fan, convincing yourself it's chocolate won't make you smell any nicer.
But it will affect how you process what happens, which might be important in deciding your actions. (There's no reason to point out that your actions during any particular shitstorm do determine the outcomes of said shitstorm; we're all adults here, after all.)
And, of course, your choice in the moment of weakness will affect how much you will be ashamed of it if you actually survive the shitstorm despite all odds.

Sometimes having irrational beliefs makes enough of a difference to increase your chances of succesfully getting through the bad stuff.
Humans have somehow evolved to irrationally grasp for any happy belief in reach, and somehow they evolved to do it all the time.
We can, therefore, infer that it significantly increased their chances of survival: not because it's necessarily true, but because it made the first irrational believer of a caveman more stubborn, less likely to just lie down and die, and thus more likely to survive and procreate. It seems to do the same for people in recorded history, too.
Irrational belief isn't the only solution, of course. There are other weird instinctive behaviors that do the same. I won't bore you by trying to list even some of them.

I'm not saying it's always right to convert to a religion when all seems lost.
I mean, yuck. If you genuinely believe doing something is wrong, then try to find another way. You'll thank yourself later, if you survive the attempt.
What I'm saying is that if you already expect to falter in your convictions either way, then it might be reasonable to temporarily utilize the benefits of irrational beliefs, if only to make the situation feel less unbearable than it is.
I'm also saying that there are plenty of ways to go about it; some are more harmful in the long term, some are less.

(The part of this post that goes after this is long and suspiciously preachy-looking, even to me - and I'm the guy who wrote it.
Since I can't edit it to be any less preachy, and can't really delete it without making the rest of the post meaningless, I'll just put it all under a spoiler.
It's your choice whether to read it, and whether to dismiss it. Hell, I'd probably dismiss it all myself if I wasn't desperate back then; and later I'd have dismissed it if it hadn't managed to work out in my particular case.
Poke holes in my reasoning if you see any and feel like it. I'd rather say something that might be helpful or might be crazy and be proven wrong later on, than to let fear of ridicule govern my actions.)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 12:42:08 pm by HmH »
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smjjames

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #6553 on: May 25, 2019, 09:27:51 am »

@Rolan7: Not sure your relationship with the deceased, but my condolences to ya.
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Egan_BW

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #6554 on: May 25, 2019, 12:37:16 pm »

Been to two funerals in churches, first one pissed me off more than the second.
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