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I am religious and believe in free will

71 (27.7%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

114 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (23.8%)

Total Members Voted: 251

[TempAcc]

Metaphorical language is a thing.

Of course, there will always be those people that insist that anything but literal interpretation is wrong, but those people are usualy the kind of people who wants to put people to death for adultery and disobeying their parents.

[Frumple]

Which doesn't really mean anything. If an entity capable of creating reality wants to compress several billion years into a few days time, it probably can. Or it can just bypass the lot of it and put something down over that seven days that is what would happen after several billion years of development, and let the clock tick from there. Last tuesday type stuff. And yes, I'm aware the general scenario is presented as last thursday. Screw thursday, tuesday is better.

... mind you, unless they've changed their mind while they were out, osg does believe other parts of the bible invalidates evolutionary theory, but the initial creation myth doesn't meaningfully import anything about it. Initial creation myth honestly doesn't meaningfully import much at all, especially considering there's two of them and they're at least partially contradictory.

[i2amroy]

Metaphorical language is a thing.

Of course, there will always be those people that insist that anything but literal interpretation is wrong, but those people are usualy the kind of people who wants to put people to death for adultery and disobeying their parents.

This conflict over interpretation has caused so many problems that I'm thinking the bible would have been much better off with [metaphorical][/metaphorical] tags liberal distributed throughout.

[redwallzyl]

No the definition is: a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

[Graknorke]

My dictionary disagrees with you.

The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods

Besides, your definition would make some branches of science a religion.

[Frumple]

... 'course, that definition would exclude some religions, as well. S'a few branches for buddhism, ferex, that don't involve belief in a superhuman controlling power.

[Graknorke]

What about the whole thing with reincarnation, and also the mystic force Karma that judges your actions and gives you consequences for them later? That sounds both pretty superhuman and controlling to me.

[i2amroy]

It's possible for words to have multiple definitions you know. (This is the english language for goodness' sake, multiple definitions is practically what we do )

Here's the total list of definitions from dictionary.com:

noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects:
the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.
the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices:
a world council of religions.
4.
the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.:
to enter religion.
5.
the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6.
something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience:
to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7.
religions, Archaic. religious rites:
painted priests performing religions deep into the night.

[Frumple]

What about the whole thing with reincarnation, and also the mystic force Karma that judges your actions and gives you consequences for them later? That sounds both pretty superhuman and controlling to me.

They're both more akin to the laws of physics than anything else. Karma doesn't so much 'judge and gives you consequences' as it is the word for the consequences of your actions later on in the cycle, which is itself not really anything but the way existence is structured.* There's no agency or whatev' behind it all, nor anything superhuman or controlling,** it's just the nature of how things work. No more mystical than cause and effect, basically, going by some of the buddhist conceptualizations of the subject.

*Much like the whole die, become worm food, fuel something else's life thing good ol' physical reality has.
**Unless you consider something like, say, a riverbank to be controlling the river -- I wouldn't, myself, since controlling tends to imply some sort of intent. You can probably word it that way, but I don't think most people would unless the bank's been artificially constructed.

[Reelya]

Yup, becoming enlightened in Buddhism isn't some appeal to a higher power, it's working on your own nature. Karma in reincarnation is being reborn as whatever matches your soul. If it was by a God then it would be subject to the whim of that particular God, and you could appeal the God-decision (as seen in some other religions where Gods are appealable to override the decision process). With Karma you are reborn as what suits you, and that's final, no appeals. And that what separates it from the idea of a god, since gods have volition. Karma is more like a hypothesized force of nature.

[Loud Whispers]

Unless you seek help from a dead teacher who temporarily has refused freedom from samsara in order to continue teaching

[Bohandas]

What about the whole thing with reincarnation, and also the mystic force Karma that judges your actions and gives you consequences for them later? That sounds both pretty superhuman and controlling to me.

I think there's a couple buddhist denominations that don't believe in literal reincarnation either

[Antioch]

Ok I have a religiously themed statement for discussion:

An infinite randomness is more powerful than any god put forth by mainstream religions.

[Sheb]

How can randomness be powerful in any meaningful sense of the word?

[wobbly]

What about the whole thing with reincarnation, and also the mystic force Karma that judges your actions and gives you consequences for them later? That sounds both pretty superhuman and controlling to me.

I think there's a couple buddhist denominations that don't believe in literal reincarnation either

The problem or good thing with buddhism though is that if you select the right school & the right interpretation you can make it say just about anything.