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I am religious and believe in free will

71 (27.7%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

114 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (23.8%)

Total Members Voted: 251

[Orange Wizard]

That's a bit of an oversimplification. In the Reformed church (and most other churches will have a similar doctrine, maybe with words moved around a little) the idea is that a true belief - that is, a belief that will result in being saved from Hell - will result in worship, church attendance, etcetera. This might be as origami phrased it, "just sort of happens", or perhaps an active desire to express thankfulness. Usually, though, the bigger influences are much more mundane, like social pressure. For those of us raised into the Church, at least.

Another point is that admitting you've done wrong isn't enough. You have to try to change things, or "make up for it", to use the vernacular. This most certainly is not intended to allow for a mindless "I murdered thirty guys, but I told God I was sorry so it's all good".
In short, forgiveness is not a justification for wrongdoing.

[TheDarkStar]

To perhaps, change the topic a bit away from fedoras as well sating my curiosity: while being raised as a catholic means I consider it pretty normal, I was wondering what do followers of other denominations of Christianity (as well as, I guess, any other religion) think of the various saints and related practices of Catholicism?

I don't know much about those practices, but from what I know, I think that they are unnecessary. I believe that all you need to do to get to heaven is:
-admit your sin
-believe that Jesus died on the cross for your sins
-accept the gift of forgiveness

I don't think anywhere in the bible speaks against saints and such, but to me, those practices are not required.

I believe similarly. My list is this:
-have faith in Christ
-admit and repent of sin (including not doing it again)
-Do the positive things - go to church, help others, etc.
-baptism/similar - done by the person if they're alive; if not, someone does it in place of them.

:/ 4 posts while I wrote this.

[origamiscienceguy]

That's a bit of an oversimplification. In the Reformed church (and most other churches will have a similar doctrine, maybe with words moved around a little) the idea is that a true belief - that is, a belief that will result in being saved from Hell - will result in worship, church attendance, etcetera.

I think I just ninja'd you 

The other side of it is that admitting you've done wrong isn't enough. You have to try to change things, or "make up for it", to use the vernacular. This most certainly is not intended to allow for a mindless "I murdered thirty guys, but I told God I was sorry so it's all good".
In short, forgiveness is not a justification for wrongdoing.

While it's great to try to do good, the bible says that man cannot do good by sheer will alone. Even after believing.

Romans 3:23, "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."
James 2:10, "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it."
(I can reference several more if you want

Instead, the only way is to believe in Jesus to have him take away your sins.

Roamns 6:23, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Acts 16: 29-31, "29 The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. 30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”
(I can reference several more if you want.)

[Rolan7]

To perhaps, change the topic a bit away from fedoras as well sating my curiosity: while being raised as a catholic means I consider it pretty normal, I was wondering what do followers of other denominations of Christianity (as well as, I guess, any other religion) think of the various saints and related practices of Catholicism?

As an atheist and animist, I'm actually fairly jealous.  The concept (as I understand it) of recognizing exceptional people (with supernatural, divine powers) and naming them as patrons of mundane activities speaks to me.  I find comfort in thanking Gaia, the hypothetical spirit of the living planet, for things like rain, wind, or clear night skies.  I'm sure there are saints I could thank in a similar manner.  I feel like such practices help people appreciate things they may otherwise take for granted.  And by giving thanks to exemplary humans, their memories are preserved and they serve as role models long after their deaths.

As for the rituals...  I really don't know enough to comment, but there is something about the majesty and grandeur.  Intimidating, humbling and appealing.  I love cathedrals and certain churches from an aesthetic standpoint.

[origamiscienceguy]

hey, rolan, did you see my answer to your question you asked about a week ago? I put alot of research into it. 

[Rolan7]

I still have it open in a tab, actually!  Sorry I haven't replied yet - I appreciate you looking into it, and I want my reply to do it justice.  I'll probably be home in a few days, and I can figure out exactly why my interpretation is right and yours is wrong   (That was a joke.  At a glance, I don't see anything wrong with what you said.)

[Bohandas]

To perhaps, change the topic a bit away from fedoras as well sating my curiosity: while being raised as a catholic means I consider it pretty normal, I was wondering what do followers of other denominations of Christianity (as well as, I guess, any other religion) think of the various saints and related practices of Catholicism?

I don't know much about those practices, but from what I know, I think that they are unnecessary. I believe that all you need to do to get to heaven is:
-admit your sin
-believe that Jesus died on the cross for your sins
-accept the gift of forgiveness

I don't think anywhere in the bible speaks against saints and such, but to me, those practices are not required.

They're not required in Catholicism either, they're just thought to help.

[Arx]

Oops, I forgot the most important part.

-you have to believe that Jesus was the Son of God and he was raised to life three days after his death.

Kinda important.

Still doesn't require actual worship, though. Which is pretty interesting.

Yup. You don't necessarily have to think God is nice, and you don't have to like everything about Him, just accept what He's done. If you can't find it in yourself to love God, it's actually forgivable, as long as you believe.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

To perhaps, change the topic a bit away from fedoras as well sating my curiosity: while being raised as a catholic means I consider it pretty normal, I was wondering what do followers of other denominations of Christianity (as well as, I guess, any other religion) think of the various saints and related practices of Catholicism?

Some of it is a bit wierd to me.
I don't fully understand saints, are they heros or something or are they just dedicated people who helped spread the religion?
Transubutation? Is that how it's spelled? That's different than communion at my church, we believe it's a symbolic ceremony and not that the wine turns to blood or bread to flesh.
We ((sorry I keep using we, I mean to say my church)) also believe in once saved and always saved and that good works are not needed but they are encouraged. (Look at sig for explanation to that)
We also baptize when members are able to understand what they are doing (or seem like they grasp it) rather than baptizing people when they are babies.

[TempAcc]

From what I understand, actual saints are people who have performed miracles in life that have been recognized by the church, even if posthumously. Its actualy a pretty well defined process with several steps, with the last being full canonization, which recognizes said person as a saint, who is given a feast day and prayer to said saint is allowed.

The church, however, honours people other then saints, as "blessed ones", "servants of god" and "venerables", but those aren't actual saints.

Many people outside the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches have misplaced ideas about how saints and their worship work. When a person prays to a saint, they aren't actualy worshipping the saint as God, but rather asking for the saint to intercede on their behalf or on behalf of their cause, like an intermediary between them and God.

TL;DR a saint is kind of a hero that went through ordeals in his/her life in the name of God and has performed miracles and as such has been officialy recognized as a saint by the church, and is considered a paragon of the faith.

[origamiscienceguy]

To perhaps, change the topic a bit away from fedoras as well sating my curiosity: while being raised as a catholic means I consider it pretty normal, I was wondering what do followers of other denominations of Christianity (as well as, I guess, any other religion) think of the various saints and related practices of Catholicism?

Some of it is a bit wierd to me.
I don't fully understand saints, are they heros or something or are they just dedicated people who helped spread the religion?
Transubutation? Is that how it's spelled? That's different than communion at my church, we believe it's a symbolic ceremony and not that the wine turns to blood or bread to flesh.
We ((sorry I keep using we, I mean to say my church)) also believe in once saved and always saved and that good works are not needed but they are encouraged. (Look at sig for explanation to that)
We also baptize when members are able to understand what they are doing (or seem like they grasp it) rather than baptizing people when they are babies.

I think that is exactly what my church believes, except with a small change. Our baptism is a choice by the person who thinks they are ready to publicly declare their religion.

[Helgoland]

-snip-

Yeah, there's a fair amount of misconceptions. As far as I know, a saint is just someone of whom we know for certain that he or she has gone to heaven, usually because they have performed miracles and led a godly life.

@Infant baptism: I think it's still current doctrine that you need to be baptized to go to heaven - so if you don't baptize an infant and it dies, you've deprived them of eternal salvation, which is pretty much the most awful thing you could do. Add to that that historically infant mortality was ridiculously high, and you've got yourself a reason to call a priest pretty much as soon as contractions start.

[origamiscienceguy]

-snip-

@Infant baptism: I think it's still current doctrine that you need to be baptized to go to heaven - so if you don't baptize an infant and it dies, you've deprived them of eternal salvation, which is pretty much the most awful thing you could do. Add to that that historically infant mortality was ridiculously high, and you've got yourself a reason to call a priest pretty much as soon as contractions start.

My church believes that the water doesn't save you, but belief in Jesus Christ does. My church believes in an "age of accountability" which is the age when the child is capable of making the decision to follow Christ. If they die before that age, the belief is that they automatically go to heaven.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

To perhaps, change the topic a bit away from fedoras as well sating my curiosity: while being raised as a catholic means I consider it pretty normal, I was wondering what do followers of other denominations of Christianity (as well as, I guess, any other religion) think of the various saints and related practices of Catholicism?

Some of it is a bit wierd to me.
I don't fully understand saints, are they heros or something or are they just dedicated people who helped spread the religion?
Transubutation? Is that how it's spelled? That's different than communion at my church, we believe it's a symbolic ceremony and not that the wine turns to blood or bread to flesh.
We ((sorry I keep using we, I mean to say my church)) also believe in once saved and always saved and that good works are not needed but they are encouraged. (Look at sig for explanation to that)
We also baptize when members are able to understand what they are doing (or seem like they grasp it) rather than baptizing people when they are babies.

I think that is exactly what my church believes, except with a small change. Our baptism is a choice by the person who thinks they are ready to publicly declare their religion.

Ya sorry meant to add that as well, my church believes baptisms are for public declaration of faith and not needed for salvation. Though my church requires baptism to be a member of the church, not to say they require it in their belief to go to heaven.

[Orange Wizard]

In my church, baptism is the sign of God's covenant, which is made between believers and their children. This is a recurring theme in the OT, where God promises folks like Abraham that he will "make a covenant between you and your children". Also, in the NT, Christ himself was very fond of children. He baptised them and declared "anyone who does not receive the Kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it" (Mark 10:15). So yes, we do baptise infants.
Later in life, if you choose to follow through with the covenant, a Profession of Faith is made before the congregation. Which is basically just saying you believe in God and (mostly) agree with the doctrines of the church. Then you get to sit at the table for communion or have people vote for you as an elder or deacon.

While it's great to try to do good, the bible says that man cannot do good by sheer will alone. Even after believing.

Au contraire. According to the Canons of Dort, believers are capable of doing good in the eyes of God by the grace of the Holy Spirit. I'll be able to throw many references at you momentarily, but I will need to dig out my copy of the Canons.